Unreal: UCSB hit with NCAA sanctions for having xc runners run over the summer

I was wondering the same thing. It makes it sound like you're not allowed to draw up mileage for off season programs as well.. Or prescribe summer training workouts.

Read between the lines. This has more to do with negating the lawsuit brought on by former coach Pete Dolan than any actual serious violations. Pure politics.

Kruppe wrote:

Read between the lines. This has more to do with negating the lawsuit brought on by former coach Pete Dolan than any actual serious violations. Pure politics.

Yep, it’s complete nuanced bull$hit bureaucratic constipation. UCSB likely doesn’t want to pay out Pete in my opinion, which is ironic, because he was merely doing what any GOOD and competent coach would do. They probably self-reported the technicality, when every other good program across the country is having their athletes do the same thing.

Pete was a good coach and is a good guy. No more donations from me...

I think you guys are mis-reading this. It's happening. I heard this from my P5 compliance department and had to put safeguards into place.

Sorry, I also started a post about this (Poll for NCAA Coaches) in trying to get a discussion going because I, too, feel it's common place and is actually good coaching. It's just another way NCAA track is changing.

Sounds like the violation was the coach requiring the athletes to train and log their training on off days, not for the athletes running.

In the track program, the committee said Dolan expected the distance runners to log their training activity during the summer and on their in-season weekly day off, which are periods when countable athletically related activity is prohibited. The former coach reviewed the logs, provided feedback on their training, and punished or admonished student-athletes who did not meet his training or logging expectations. The committee noted in its report, although student-athletes may choose to train during times when countable athletically related activity is prohibited, there can be no suggestion by the coaching staff that they are expected to do so. The former coach’s monitoring meant that the training activities during those times were not truly voluntary and were impermissible.

They could bust every NCAA program in the country for the above and a lot of High Schools as well.

This is so laughable...every college in the country violates this rule then. It would be irresponsible coaching to turn athletes loose for the summer and not check in on them and give them a training plan. My coach was pretty old school, so we had to mail in our weekly logs on index cards. If a coach doesn't know what his runners are doing all summer, then how is he supposed to train them properly when they do get back on campus?

previous wrongdoer wrote:

I think you guys are mis-reading this. It's happening. I heard this from my P5 compliance department and had to put safeguards into place.

Sorry, I also started a post about this (Poll for NCAA Coaches) in trying to get a discussion going because I, too, feel it's common place and is actually good coaching. It's just another way NCAA track is changing.

Perhaps you are correct, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t nuanced bull$hit bureaucracy. Did Dolan really “punish” his athletes who didn’t comply? Any distance runner who wants to get better and succeed at the highest levels is going to welcome a coach’s “off-season” advice and fugging follow it.

Just my opinion, but what I find disingenuous is that the water polo coaching indiscretions from that report seem much worse than what Pete purportedly did, but they are still gainfully employed. Make the punishment fit the crime. If UCSB wants to do the right thing, they should give Pete a nice package. He put some runners on the map when the program was floundering before his arrival.

Wow just like what my 15mpw hs coach would do when I started running 70-60 a week

DietBacon wrote:

Sounds like the violation was the coach requiring the athletes to train and log their training on off days, not for the athletes running.

This is correct.

In all NCAA sports there are day and hour restrictions.

When the coach told the athletes to log the miles, and then reviewed the logs, he was actively coaching.

If he said in May "Hey, get together during the summer and run. Then tell me about it in October during XC season" That would be okay.

He has to be hands off during restricted times.

Folks. It is happening. Coaches, please self report your summer prescription of workouts and any feed back you received. Or any suggested activities on your mandatory day off. Let the ncaa decide to what extent (if any) the rules weren’t followed.

You are going to be a lot better off to self report than fall victim to the witch-hunt that is about to go down.

Do good letters are real wrote:

Folks. It is happening. Coaches, please self report your summer prescription of workouts and any feed back you received. Or any suggested activities on your mandatory day off. Let the ncaa decide to what extent (if any) the rules weren’t followed.

You are going to be a lot better off to self report than fall victim to the witch-hunt that is about to go down.

When a disgruntled and entitled student-athlete doesn't make a travel squad, the blame will go to the coach. The student-athlete will have the power, because emails + communication will show training prescribed during the off-season that will count as a violation. Add in some gender mis-representation to your local Diversity Inclusion Officer, and a hint of foul language to your Title IX Administrator, and the violations will mount. It will be a guilty until proven innocent situation.

From the report: "...The committee noted in its report, although student-athletes may choose to train during times when countable athletically related activity is prohibited, there can be no suggestion by the coaching staff that they are expected to do so. The former coach’s monitoring meant that the training activities during those times were not truly voluntary and were impermissible..."

This is how it was explained to me almost 20 years ago when I got my first college coaching job. It doesn't seem like that's too difficult to follow. I've always told my student-athletes that I'm willing to help them in any way they want, but that they need to approach me during the parts of the year the NCAA allows direct day to day coaching. I provide a general year-round template, a "training philosophy and development plan", that they can either follow or not follow. But I'm not reviewing what they're actually doing over the summer unless they're initiating the conversation. In my experience, about 90% of team members who are proactive with their communications to me see real improvement, whereas with those who never/rarely check in it's maybe 50/50.

In the past when I've asked our compliance director about runners logging their runs year round I've been told that's fine, no violation, as long as it's not communicated to the team members that they have to do it. I've also been told it's fine to review their logs and provide feedback if they send them to me. I can't require that they send them to me. I can't set up some kind of punishment system if somebody on the team doesn't want to send me a training log. If they're doing an online log or something like Strava I can't require them to give me access to their account. But if they want to provide access I can check it out.

The NCAA's challenge in setting rules to address this kind of thing is they're dealing with 1000+ schools in 3 divisions with widely varying goals and resources. They're trying to make rules that make sense for team sports and individual sports, and that are somewhat similar. They're dealing with student-athletes who range from Olympic hopefuls and future professionals to 35:00 5k XC runners. I'm glad I don't have that job!!

The rule should be changed rather than blaming disgruntled athletes. By the rules as written perfectly reasonable things are forbidden.

Sorry, this "...they need to approach me during the parts of the year the NCAA allows direct day to day coaching..." should read:

"...they need to approach me during the parts of the year the NCAA doesn't allow direct day to day coaching..."

Cancel the NCAA wrote:

This is so laughable...every college in the country violates this rule then. It would be irresponsible coaching to turn athletes loose for the summer and not check in on them and give them a training plan. My coach was pretty old school, so we had to mail in our weekly logs on index cards. If a coach doesn't know what his runners are doing all summer, then how is he supposed to train them properly when they do get back on campus?

Well, either you have the rules and enforce them, or you change the rules. It can only rightfully be one or the other. I think nearly everyone understands the intent/purpose of the rules, whether you agree with them or not.

Is this a joke? Here is what the article says about the XC violations.

So the NCAA is saying a scholarship athlete in cross country can't be expected to run over the summer? What a joke. I mean that is a joke.

And here is the penalty the team got for 2 years.

They might as well ban every NCAA coach. This is so unbelievable. And he gets a show-cause penalty for that when the UArizona coach his paying his basketball players hundreds of thousands?

I just found the NCAA decision.

I guess if they want to say that it's only voluntary in the summer that's fine but then can the coach cut their scholarship if they show up in the fall not having run a step and out of shape?

dude, these people have no clue. none. if they do anything sensible it is an accident.

the cure is to shine a light on the particular individual coming up with the nonsense, and then shining light on their direct superior doing the nonsense, and you will find that they coward away, and back off.

you need to keep wacking these people with a stick,

and hey, don't ask a joker if they are joking.

these people are jokers.

This is the most ludicrous claim of NCAA violations I have ever seen. Even as many of the major D1 basketball programs have escaped virtually scot-free after Nike and Adidas were found to have been sending large amounts of money to steer recruits to particular schools such as UNC, Kansas, Louisville, and Arizona, they are giving a major penalty to UCSB for its coach, a 33 year veteran at the job, providing and checking on workouts during the summer and week. Name me a single NCAA coach who does not do that. If you didn't have you athletes run during the summer and on the weekends, forget about your season, because almost no one is going to be in decent shape. This idea is absolutely incompatible with the sport. And his penalty was equivalent to that of the Water Polo program, which was paying recruits and providing impermissible benefits. This sounds like a joke. And look at how they charge the coach with not checking with compliance and then when he says not only that he stopped by there frequently but that he set up his compliance system decades ago, they do not actually investigate that claim at all but base their judgment solely on the word of some guy at compliance for just six years.

What happened to the presumption of innocence? They presume guilt because the original guy's not still there. This guy was railroaded out for who knows what reason.