Explosive New York Times article: Mary Cain breaks silence about NOP

Context is important though. If you put on 5 extra lbs above your healthy race weight because you go on vacation and consume pizza and beer I don’t find that conversation between coach and athlete controversial. I should say I wish it wasn’t because it’s 99% of people wouldn’t talk about it. If the athlete is already at peak healthy race weight and coach wanted them to lose more I totally agree that is evil and that is what we do not know. We don’t know the full story and I am not assuming to know your situation but at some point we all need to be accountable for ourselves. Note....I am not saying that was what Mary was eating pizza and drinking beer.

douglas burke wrote:

I can't believe what I am reading, I always thought Alberto Salazar was just like Bill Rodgers in just run for the enjoyment, Eat Frozen Pizza with Mayonnaise and a box of Chocolate Chip Cookies, your going to run off the calories anyway, IF what she is saying is true, then personality wise Salazar was VERY Different than Rodgers, it in fact makes Salazar sound like a jerk, not the eat what you want, run a lot HAVE FUN, but still be VERY COMPETITIVE, This kind of makes Salazar and Rodgers seem like 2 ENTIRELY DIFFERENT PERSONALITIES, when I always thought they were the same Have Fun eat as you please, run a lot and compete the best you can.

I was one of the biggest Salazar fans for a while at least towards his own running career and the mental fortitude which I envied and looked up to, but even I knew he had his flaws and wasn't an easy going dude like Rodgers.

I had read his biography and Duel in the Sun and in both he mentioned how he had been partial to being an ass in his younger years, but tried to become better and felt as if he was a changed man after becoming more religious, but I also knew about some other outbursts like this and also the Jeff Nelson incident

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

ICON wrote:

...meanwhile in Ethiopia and Kenya today young 19-22yo women did 10x1000m @ 3:00 with 2 minutes rest jog and then ate a plate of fried corn meal and some fresh chicken along with some good greens to balance things out. After that they read the nytimes and laughed their heads off about this whole thing.

And how many of them actually make it to pro running? And among those, how many sustain their pro career?

Two answers:

1- probably many, if they can hold up.

2- who cares if any of them make or sustain a ‘professional’ running career.

Lots of 1:12 or 2;30 types that never materialized as household name pro distance athletes. This eating issue thing is a Western World issue.

MarathonMan411 wrote:

Context is important though. If you put on 5 extra lbs above your healthy race weight because you go on vacation and consume pizza and beer I don’t find that conversation between coach and athlete controversial. I should say I wish it wasn’t because it’s 99% of people wouldn’t talk about it. If the athlete is already at peak healthy race weight and coach wanted them to lose more I totally agree that is evil and that is what we do not know. We don’t know the full story and I am not assuming to know your situation but at some point we all need to be accountable for ourselves. Note....I am not saying that was what Mary was eating pizza and drinking beer.

I wonder if Salazar got on Bill Rodgers case about eating Pizza with Mayonnaise and Chocolate Chip Cookies, They ran together sometimes when Salazar was in High School, and Rodgers Diet was well known.

Philip Exeter CC wrote:

I feel for Mary, but Alberto's methods maybe just triggered something inside her that was already there. A normal person wouldn't resort to cutting wrists. If she needed a pyschologist that is valid, but why blame NOP for not having one when she could have freely sought out her own? In fact, probably better to have the seperation.

Alberto has done a lot of good, and in the judgement of some not so good for the sport. On the whole, his record as one of the best remains despite the attempts of social media and cancel culture to dictate otherwise.

A Normal person wouldn’t resort to cutting wrists” she never said she cut her wrist, she said she cut herself which is called self harm. And every day thousands of children, and teenagers do it. Sometimes it leads to more serious suicidal actions other times it’s so they can feel pain, there are many reasons and causes. Take some time and educate yourself, while your at it show some sympathy and don’t be a jerk

Sesamoiditis wrote:

I never seem to get a lot wrote:

THIS.

Posters here can try to justify Alberto/Nike/excessive weight loss however they want, but I'm not comfortable with this being a part of running culture. If athletes get slower but live healthier, happier lives, so be it. It's just a game at the end of the day.

For some it is not just a game. For some it is a job or a college education.

My point, exactly. An athlete should not be required to risk their health in pursuit of said job or education. A system that requires that needs a reality check. It's just a game, after all.

Her stress fractures might be due to not getting enough calcium:

"In conclusion, the results of our study and those of others indicate that young female runners with previous stress fractures, lower bone mass, and a history of irregular menstrual periods are at high risk for stress fracture and should be carefully monitored. Although the evidence is not definitive, high calcium intake should be encouraged."

https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a462082.pdf

Um, you lose your period because of lack of many nutrients including calcium. That's called not eating enough.

Salazar used to be the rookie that would tag along with the big guys and eat after workouts, a far cry from this.

Just shameful for Nike to be associated with any of this. Salazar passes himself off as a cutting edge guru but really is just another win at all costs coach with no respect for his athletes -- or for the actual nutritionists, psychologists and sports professionals that are better qualified to advise his athletes. He experiments with drugs that he has been told will improve performance in a totally unethical and unprofessional way. His NOP success only came from reputation and nearly unlimited financial resources. Anyone can take great runners and break them down until only the strongest are left standing.

Good on Cain for making this powerful statement.

Salazar came to Houston with Galen and Kara in 2011 to heat acclimate for WCs in Daegu. Word from people at the workouts was that Salazar was brutal, especially with Kara. He kept called Kara fat and was ripping her to shreds during the workout. I thought it was pretty well known that Salazar was a win at all costs coach and NOP was an environment where only the strong survived.

What I really find odd is how Salazar was so very careful bringing Rupp along. In interviews, Salazar would say that he has to treat Rupp with kid gloves because that kind of talent rarely comes along in the US. But with Mary it seems like Salazar treated her like E. African coaches and agents treat their athletes (i.e. train and race them into the ground to see who can survive).

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

Um, you lose your period because of lack of many nutrients including calcium. That's called not eating enough.

It's possible that you can eat enough calories to maintain your weight, but if you aren't eating enough calcium, you can get bone fractures. I don't know if Mary is a Vegan, but this is a problem for them:

"The higher risk of bone fracture seen in vegans appears to be a consequence of a lower mean calcium intake. "

I would like to see if the diet Nike had her on included an adequate amount of calcium

This is a systemic problem in running - very few women coaches, company leaders and even fewer women on our governing bodies. Not buying another STUPID Nike shoe until we see more women in power & coaching positions at Nike.

She looks so cute in her new slimmer physique. Love her!

Of course Sleazy is the arch-villain here, but Cain's parents are certainly guilty as well. They knew that NOP was a janky, drug infested program and they still pimped out their child. Mary seemed sincere in the documentary, yet it is difficult to believe that she was so naive. Is she just a chowderhead? There is very little doubt that Cain was juicing along with every other NOPer. We can't just sweep her cheating under the rug because she started as a teenager. So did Rupp, Hasay and Centrowitz. Presumably, Farah, Rowbury and Radcliffe started their doping as adults and get less than zero sympathy.

My next question would be, why doesn't Mary Cain get back into running? Heck she could be her own coach and still have a good shot at making the Olympics.

Calcium wrote:

Her stress fractures might be due to not getting enough calcium:

"In conclusion, the results of our study and those of others indicate that young female runners with previous stress fractures, lower bone mass, and a history of irregular menstrual periods are at high risk for stress fracture and should be carefully monitored. Although the evidence is not definitive, high calcium intake should be encouraged."

https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a462082.pdf

Yes, while calcium is important for health. Just as important, if not more so is having a postive nitrogen balance(that means eating enough calories/quality protein).

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She was coached by salazar for 3 years in HS. Is she saying that the some of the fractures happened during HS ? or did she not have any fractures until the year after she actually moved to oregon? did he harass her about her weight in HS?

It really sounds like that while she was with her parents, salarzar was pretty careful with how he treated her and it wasn't until she moved out there that it all went south. I'm guessing if he was coaching her like this while she was living at home, she never would have jumped on his bandwagon.