Switch back? You mean to trainers and out of flats?
Switch back? You mean to trainers and out of flats?
Did you make a sudden switch to flats?
I am finding the same thing, but I notice it gently going away wearing my bigger trainers part of the time. I think the issue may be quite obvious, because the foot never had a chance to develop, it is too weak or soft or whatever for flats 100% of the time.
BTW, I once had PF enough to warrant purchasing a night splint. The idea is to keep the foot pointing perpendicular to the leg, like as if you are still standing.
Your foot flops forward, while you are sleeping. So the achilles and Plantar Fascia are short while the healing process is happening. So you get up in the morning and re-rip the tissue, hence it hurts most in the a.m., then warms up and goes away.
I tried all, stretching, heat, ice, massage, golf ball, less running, more running-nothing! So I tried the splint and the next morning, no pain whatsoever. I kept using the thing for a week or so I forget now. Anyway, 100% better right away. BUT the front part of the foot, where the foot and leg meet became weak, so that took some excercises to strengthen back up.
Yank, sorry to hear about your problems. The night sock is a good idea. I am probably stating the obvious but you are stretching your toes,gastroc, soleus, hamstrings and hips, low back to start with? Don't forget to stretch the posterior tib.
It is important for you to be functionally strong as well. Most runners miss this and have amazingly weak gluteals and hip muscles ( abductors, internal and external rotators)All the abdominals should be strong as well. Your plantar fascia most likely is not your problem ( though when you have it you beg to differ)but it is taking the brunt of what ever biomechanically is not in sync. It is not your age either.
Well I started with the old Tiger G-9's and Aztecs. I did hockey for a number of years, then came back to running...inspired by Meyer and Benoit.
I was using these blue and silver and white NIKE flats, then went to the Air Pegs. I switched to ASICS flats, white with orange and blue stripes, after trying some NB's...238's I guess.
I don't suppose you could call it a SUDDEN switch. I think.
The leg problems started after a very poorly executed marathon, from which I returned to training hard too soon.
I had just passed 40 too, at the time.
Maybe I should get flats again but WALK for a considerable period? Maybe 1-2 months and not run in them but let the legs adjust??? I'm about ready to hang 'em up and go to cycling and lifting at this point.
Yank wrote:
Switch back? You mean to trainers and out of flats?
I run in flats all the time because it works for me. If it didn't work I wouldn't do it. If you were running in trainers with no problem, why switch? If you want to move in the "Lydirad" direction with shoes, you'd get the simplest, most flexible shoe you could handle and maybe do some work on strengthening the muscles in your feet. But you wouldn't run in something that bothered you.
Yank wrote:
Well I started with the old Tiger G-9's and Aztecs. I did hockey for a number of years, then came back to running...inspired by Meyer and Benoit.
I was using these blue and silver and white NIKE flats, then went to the Air Pegs. I switched to ASICS flats, white with orange and blue stripes, after trying some NB's...238's I guess.
I don't suppose you could call it a SUDDEN switch. I think.
The leg problems started after a very poorly executed marathon, from which I returned to training hard too soon.
I had just passed 40 too, at the time.
Maybe I should get flats again but WALK for a considerable period? Maybe 1-2 months and not run in them but let the legs adjust??? I'm about ready to hang 'em up and go to cycling and lifting at this point.
I was actually inspired by HRE's article to completely switch to minimalist shoes. It took some adjustment but wasn't too bad. Need to use common sense; yes, it was a bit tough at first but I used it for morning jog, easy run on treadmill, etc. For the longest time I guess I was just following the US trend and it was in the 90s it really started to hit me. I developed this Achilles problem which still hurts; had my share of PF, ITBS, etc. Now I switched to minimalist shoes, I just cannot go back to "regular" shoes--for one, I feel so far off the ground and unstable! Also most shoes are so rigid I can feel the strain in my arch (something Arthur always talked about).
Now I get minimalist shoes from Japan--ASICS marathon shoes which is not just simply "thin". But I also noticed, as I get older, and perhaps a bit heavier, I do need a wee bit extra cushion. This is actually inevitable (maybe except for you, HRE! ;o)) because you do lose some muscle tone. And now I noticed I feel more comfortable with Japanese Tarther, which is pretty much equivalent to most US racing flats.
Just to think, if some Western kid who had been riding buses and been driven to places; sit around the counch, watching football games... All of a sudden decided to run and went out and run 6 miles. It would be pretty tough and he would be weezing for a while, wouldn't he? Now your feet are the same way. With all the advertisement, you've been "educated" to "pamper" your feet; stabilize and motion controlled and cushioned and all that. All of a sudden, your feet would be thrown out and do all the work that they were supposed to do... They'd be shocked! Just as you gradually work up your running, you should gradually let your feet do the job they were meant to do. For that, I guess it would take 9 weeks??? ;o) Okay, sorry; this last line is a joke!
HRE: I switched to the flats because NIKE had butchered the Air Pegasus. I don't wear NIKE products anymore.
Well now, this raises the issue, yet again, of what SIMPLE model shoes are out there.
Vitruvians are one model. They are essentially the one sheet of EVA with no bells and whistles.
There are the ASICS Ultimate 81's, if you can find them, which are replicas of the early 1980-version shoes.
Loco makes the Bandito, which is also a fairly simple design and finally some places still carry the old Saucony nylon Jazz which someone here described as 'cushy bricks'.
What would you advocate for a supinator or someone dealing with PF? WOULD you suggest wearing less cumbersome shoes walking around for Nobby's 9-week period, then moving to regular running in them?
Looking forward to the interview with JB. What is the clubsite link?
Runbird wrote:
Looking forward to the interview with JB. What is the clubsite link?
Hey! What about me!? ;o)
Runbird,
I can give you the club site link, but at this time you will find nothing there about the clinic or either of the interviews. The fact that I am a club member has no bearing on the clinic and the interviews.
If you want to see the club, go to
.
If you want to peruse all things Lydiard,
If you want to listen to the CBC interview with Jon Brown, again go to the facebook.com site, type into the search bar, 'Arthur Lydiard' you may see the Arthur Lydiard group there and feel free to join, discuss, listen.
I rip a ram file for Nobby and emailed it to him of another interview at another radio station, without Jon Brown, just with Nobby himself.
Thanks,
W
bump on the shoe question
Nobby wrote:
, . All of a sudden, your feet would be thrown out and do all the work that they were supposed to do... They'd be shocked! Just as you gradually work up your running, you should gradually let your feet do the job they were meant to do. For that, I guess it would take 9 weeks??? ;o) Okay, sorry; this last line is a joke!
The human foot was not "meant" to run on asphalt and concrete. That´s why we need cushioned shoes.
nope wrote:
The human foot was not "meant" to run on asphalt and concrete. That´s why we need cushioned shoes.
Cushioned shoes actually increase the force of impact.
...what's that...? INCREASES force of impact?
Yup. Steve Robbins studied it with impact detedtors at McGill University in the late 80s.
HRE,
I agree with this and I also think that the unnatural spring off must have some effect.
Also, I find I wear out the outside of my right shoe more than the left. I find that my right calf is more built up than my left, Nobby can attest to this. Sometimes there is an unnamed/odd pain in the lower leg...
Now that I have been wearing lightwieght trainers and flats, the calf more resembles the other, the outside of the right shoe is still more worn than the left, but not nearly as much of a difference....and no associated pain.
Ron Daws wrote that over cushioning a shoe is like dribbling a basketball on a mattress. Robbins says that if you overcushion a shoe your feet can't read what sort of surface they're running on and that you naturally overcompensate by slamming the ground harder to give your feet a feel for the ground.
Someone I know who likes Lydiard method, follows the Ron Daws method to the T...he just recommended I get both his books.
Looks like I have some reading coming up...