New book about FM

When did you run for FM?

It’s a really cool read in how a hs coach goes way over top to win “nationals” at the hs level - in a sport no one cares about. And kills the kids for future running - but he is so good that he never takes blame when the kids are unsuccessful later - here is a hint - if it take hourly speeches a day, full Parebt buy in (based on not eating anything bad and giving up all family vacations). You are not that good of a coach - you are a good cult leader - picture Aris in the ncaa, he never went there because he wouldn’t be successful

will check it out

At anytime if those kids did not want to be there they could have walked away

Aris does nothing that 99% of HS football coaches do - demand total dedication. Most HS football programs the team owns you from June till the end of the season. No family vacations, long team meetings, total dedication and people don't blink an eye because it is football so why can't an XC coach demand the same

Pushing the runners gets many of them into schools and money for school that they otherwise might not have a shot at.

But if you feel like I feel . Please let me know that it's real

I read it. As a coach I am always interested to see how and what other coaches do. I found it interesting and you can always learn a thing or two and it gets you thinking.

Baka wrote:

It’s a really cool read in how a hs coach goes way over top to win “nationals” at the hs level - in a sport no one cares about. And kills the kids for future running - but he is so good that he never takes blame when the kids are unsuccessful later - here is a hint - if it take hourly speeches a day, full Parebt buy in (based on not eating anything bad and giving up all family vacations). You are not that good of a coach - you are a good cult leader - picture Aris in the ncaa, he never went there because he wouldn’t be successful

Aren’t those traits that many successful athletes utilize, making sacrifices to attain athletic success?

No program is perfect in ensuring that all athletes run well in college. An argument could be made that the exposure FM gets from their success has helped many athletes have the opportunity to compete for a college team.

obviously they have done amazing things. but from the little that I've read, I don't think there are many people who would want to emulate what Arias does (or be able to for that matter). It is very unique to his personality. He is able to get kids to commit. That's the takeaway. A good coach will need to figure out how to do that in their own way. Not many have the force of personality to make it happen.

jenapharm wrote:

At anytime if those kids did not want to be there they could have walked away

Aris does nothing that 99% of HS football coaches do - demand total dedication. Most HS football programs the team owns you from June till the end of the season. No family vacations, long team meetings, total dedication and people don't blink an eye because it is football so why can't an XC coach demand the same

Pushing the runners gets many of them into schools and money for school that they otherwise might not have a shot at.

Well if football does it. Why don't we have kids run full steam into trees and brick walls. I mean football has the kids bash there heads into each other why can't the XC coach demand the same?

I've been curious about that book ..

Also keep in mind that the book does it's best to paint FM in the most favorable light. If what you are reading in the book sounds extreme or intense, the reality is that it's probably twice as bad.

I can say with 100% certainty that the book leaves out many things that would shock and horror all of you.

It’s a great read....one can take away some excellent ideas from it......BUT, you better have the strong personality to back it up.....not many do. If you read it you will be amazed how many FM kids go on to be successful.....quite different than what many believe.

I just picked up the book and have read the first 75 pages so maybe things change later, but my impressions:

1. Marc Bloom is a terrible writer. No pretense of being objective. The North Korean Ministry of Propaganda reporting on Kim Jung Un's birthday is more fair and balanced.

2. It's no surprise all the kids burn out. They don't do any easy runs. The easiest run they do is a two hour run on Sunday that the boys run at 6 minute mile pace the girls at 7 minute mile pace.

3. Ardis is only a hall monitor in the school. I had always heard he was a math teacher or gym teacher. It sounds like he spends most of his time trying to recruit kids.

4. The book doesn't really explain how kids buy into his Stotan philosophy. Kids sign up for cross-country and automatically devote their life to running.

5. Some of the things he does would only work in an affluent school. At their summer training camp they sit around the campfire and each runner says what he likes and dislikes about every other runner. I coach at an inner city school. If I did that there would be shootings

IMHO, the main reason that FM athletes don't progress beyond high school is because they left a disciplinarian system. The talent is still there but, most college teams are not a super tight 24/7 lifestyle unit. Think of it like Amish kids that go on rumspringa. After a year or so of seeing the wider world, they face a choice of being baptized into their rigid faith or leaving. Some kids leave forever after tasting that freedom.

I am guessing that after four years or more of Stotan living, a college campus with unlimited food options, social opportunities, parties, booze, weed, sex, free thinking, and the like are irresistible. Couple that with a coach that isn't as ego invested or controlling your every move like Arias, people will fall off of the wagon and become...normal. Some will keep competing with intensity, some will simply mail it in to keep their scholarship, some will quit. FM will always have those NXN trophies and that's what drives Arias.

FM (and NY in general) begins training it's athletes since middle school. This makes a huge difference, especially in girl's cross country. We all know girl's XC is less competitive than boy's, predominantly because certain regions of the country were behind in being progressive.

Not to mention, the difference in sports/sports drain effect. Look at football, for example. King in the south (makes no wonder that the top 10 states are mostly southern states + California).

Not just that... but almost 2x as many participants in football than cross country--- and that's despite the fact that football is 99.9% mostly a boy sport, only.

Now I'm REALLY curious about this book.

First of all, I don't think highly of Marc Bloom. Marc Bloom wrote God on the Starting Line about AYITL coaching a small humble boys XC team. In the book he drooled over the coaches of great programs like Pat Tyson (Mead) the Kranicks (Saratoga), and that team in Wyoming who ran 400 repeats the day before a major race. He idealized them and their runners. He also idealized the great runners themselves.

Here's the thing. If you are coaching kids, that's who you're coaching. Kids. Not cardboard cut outs of what a perfect runner is supposed to look like. Not every runner is going to say their favorite food is Oatmeal and their favorite movie is Chariots of Fire. Kids are going to be human, mess up, skip runs, eat McDonalds. Doesn't mean they can't reach their full potential and have fun doing it. Coaching them to be the best people they can be is paramount.

Not to mention GOTSL had some odd creepy passages regarding the girls in the school and Bloom.

Dammit, the subject line keeps making me think a deep-dive book about the other FM (aka the most infamous bicyclist in LRC history) has come out. That's a book I'd definitely read.

I've read the book. I like the overall story, but there are some descriptions of workouts that seem too good to be true. I'm not sure the style of coaching is good for the long term well being of the athlete.