I would rather burn my money than pay for your student loan

So are you saying that 18 year olds should not be allowed to bind themselves via contracts? At some point, people need to be made responsible for their own decisions. Perhaps that age is not 18 - I think that there is a decent basis for arguing 18 is too young - but that is the age that we have collectively agreed upon. Even if it is not the right age, is it really the government's job to protect 18 year olds from making bad decisions, or is it the responsibility of the 18 year old and his or her family?

You view the cost of the education of failed students as an externality of potential future employers. I don't agree. Externalities arise from the direct result of the actor (think pollution from factories). Here, the employers are not choosing the major for the students. They are simply offering employment to those who meet their standards. That's as egalitarian as it gets, and to impose the cost of someone overestimating their intellectual ability on employers within the industry of the failed major is insane. The closest we should come to that is by way of apprenticeships, which are different in that the employer directly agrees to take on the burden of education of the apprentice in advance.

Well, you're half right.

I will vote against whoever is for erasing student loan debt. My ex can go f*** herself and stay saddled for years with her $120k debt lmao. I'll happily finish off paying my $30k :)

stil_kannonier wrote:

I will vote against whoever is for erasing student loan debt. My ex can go f*** herself and stay saddled for years with her $120k debt lmao. I'll happily finish off paying my $30k :)

Correct

You should read what you write before you push "submit post". The children of the depression who fought in WWII returned home to free college education and vocational training thanks to the GI bill. It also demonstrates how public funding of higher education can help economic growth (certainly much better than tax cuts).

It took the stock market about 7 years to recover from the great recession. It has almost double in the six years after it recovered. Investors already got their bailout and are doing great.

It is offensive to blame people who graduated from college when the great recession hit for not being able to pay off their student loans. No one saw the great recession coming four years out. People go to college when they graduate high school and do not have the option of trying to time their graduation to a good labor market.

But the real issue is that people have been ripped off by the government and private industry radically shifting the burden of higher education and advanced job training to student debt instead of public funding.

Between this and reparations, the Dems are certainly trying to ensure they lose the presidential election in 2020. Giving money is a band-aid. Treat the GDMN problem. Fix education and health care systems. Tear them down to the ground, even though tens of thousands will lose jobs, and come up with a modern solution. I admit it's a tough nut to crack, and I don't know exactly HOW to do it, but I know trying to fix the current situation is not feasible.

Can we say Byzantine? That's where we are specifically with health care. If I break my leg I have no idea what the costs will be until I get a bill some months in the future. Then another bill 3 months after that, with vague language as to what it was for. Because doctor walked in and checked my pulse? $350 for that?

Oh Please wrote:

Between this and reparations, the Dems are certainly trying to ensure they lose the presidential election in 2020. Giving money is a band-aid. Treat the GDMN problem. Fix education and health care systems. Tear them down to the ground, even though tens of thousands will lose jobs, and come up with a modern solution. I admit it's a tough nut to crack, and I don't know exactly HOW to do it, but I know trying to fix the current situation is not feasible.

Can we say Byzantine? That's where we are specifically with health care. If I break my leg I have no idea what the costs will be until I get a bill some months in the future. Then another bill 3 months after that, with vague language as to what it was for. Because doctor walked in and checked my pulse? $350 for that?

Surely it depends on who gets the nomination.

I don’t think all of them support student loan forgiveness and/or reparations.

1) The GI bill has never stopped being available to those who serve. Did you take advantage of it? Of course you didn't. 2) Stock market recovery is envisioned by you as bail out? What is wrong with you? My balances didn't get back to even for many more than seven years. In my case, the better part of 15 years of gains and potential gains down the drain. Am I screaming for a handout because of that? 3) Kiddos from the Great Entitled Generation haven't seemed to get, yet, that life is a bittch. Nobody cares about your perceived lost opportunities, because life never owed you those opportunities to begin with. Your principal problem here is based on your original premise that life owes you anything at all.

Precious Roy wrote:

--The children of the depression who fought in WWII returned home to free college education and vocational training thanks to the GI bill.

--Investors already got their bailout and are doing great.

--It is offensive to blame people who graduated from college when the great recession hit for not being able to pay off their student loans.

Maybe so, but they all support free healthcare for illegals

Of course some of them are now backing down on decriminalizing illegal border xings. Until the liberal outcry begins.

Farmer ...

Correct answer wrote:

stil_kannonier wrote:

I will vote against whoever is for erasing student loan debt. My ex can go f*** herself and stay saddled for years with her $120k debt lmao. I'll happily finish off paying my $30k :)

Correct

+1

I want to reiterate again that the cost of higher education is a bit overstated.

I will take Florida, where I live, as an example.

1. Tuition and fees at state universities in Florida are about $6,400 per year (using the University of Florida's numbers).

2. Any Florida student who takes the requisite high school classes, averages a 3.5 high school GPA, scores 1290 on the SAT and performs 100 hours of community service gets free tuition for 120 credit hours.

3. Any Florida student who takes the requisite high school classes, averages a 3.0 high school GPA, scores 1170 on the SAT and performs 75 hours of community service gets a 75% tuition scholarship for 120 credit hours.

4. Total cost per year, including room, board, books, transportation and living expenses is $21,000/year.

5. Half of all students at UF receive need based aid.

6. Of those that receive need based aid, the average aid package is $7800.

So for those who are very smart, but very poor, you might be looking at as little as $6000 a year in personal responsibility for all costs. If a student worked 10 hours per week on the average at $10/hour, that's $5000 per year of that $6000, leaving about $4000 total for the student and family to pay (including via loans).

For mediocre students of non-poor families, the total nut will be $21,000 per year. Using that same $5000 per year in earnings number for the student, that means that the student and family would be on the hook for another $16,000 per year. Admittedly a more daunting number. But remember, we are not talking about the poorest of the poor, but rather families with some resources.

And we are talking about all living expenses - some of these expenses would be present regardless of whether the kid goes to college or not. If the student were to live at home and commute to school, they may be looking at free tuition and no additional living expenses as compared to not going to college. That would leave about $1000-$1500 per year in books, supplies and student fees, an amount that would easily be covered by part time work. Alternatively, if we were talking about a marginal student who lived at home and commuted, that number would climb to about $8,000 per year. Again, $5000 of that could be covered by part time work by the student, leaving an additional $3000/year to come up with.

What is creating crushing student debt isn't the cost of education, but rather the cost of choices. Choices to go away to college instead of commuting. Choices to go to private institutions. Choices to change majors or take more than 4 years to graduate.

And for what it is worth, about 1/3rd of SAT takers exceed the required 1170. And given that the average high school GPA is about a 3.0, I think it is fair to estimate that roughly 1/3rd of Florida students are eligible for scholarships covering 75% or more of their tuition at in-state schools if they simply volunteer for 75 to 100 hours over the course of their high school careers.

Maybe Florida is atypical, but I suspect it is pretty average.

Why does it seem that the folks I know who complain that their student loans are too onerous drive new BMWs and take frequent, expensive vacations?

(I worked my way through college. Never took out any loans. Finally graduated (Debt free!)--and with 2 degrees--after 7 years.)

.....aren't saving a dime for retirement. Guess who will then be expecting a bailout when that rolls around?

Farmer in Chehalis, Washington wrote:

I'd rather see the government waste my tax dollars on something useless than use it to pay off your student loan. That's how much I hate student loan forgiveness.

With what money? You farm boys are going broke. No one is buying your stuff.

Precious Roy wrote:

student loan forgiveness will result it a massive economic boom as millions are freed from crushing debt and will be able to buy cars, homes, get married, have kids, start businesses, and so on.

The people defaulting on six figures of debt for a useless degree are not going to be starting any "businesses" that I care to see!

Smoove wrote:

Maybe Florida is atypical, but I suspect it is pretty average.

Tennessee, Georgia, and South Carolina have in-state tuition that is double that of UF. University of Alabama is about 75% greater. Schools outside of the SEC get more expensive. Michigan is $14k and Virginia is 16k.

All of this is largely beyond the point though. Basic undergrads at state schools aren't driving the student loan bubble out of control, it's the huge increase of people going to graduate school. People are taking out huge loans for some master's degrees that give very little ROI, and for a lot of schools, fast track MBA and law school programs are gigantic cash cows. On the other hand, the fact that tuition has spiraled so high out of control can't be denied. Yes, UF is cheap relatively speaking, but 30 years ago it was even cheaper. Why has the price increased so much?

Farmer in Chehalis, Washington wrote:

I'd rather see the government waste my tax dollars on something useless than use it to pay off your student loan. That's how much I hate student loan forgiveness.

Right! Because FARMERS never get government assistance, handouts, subsidies.

How freaking ironic.

Smoove - "4. Total cost per year, including room, board, books, transportation and living expenses is $21,000/year."

80 large for a college degree. WTF really, you are defending this as affordable? I shake my head at you old people today, pretending $80k is affordable (to an 18 year old kid no less!), but when you went to college it was a comparable $20k at most in today's dollars. You have no idea what the world is like today old man, so sit down and shut up. People like you are what allows the schools to continue their abusive rip-off schemes.