Sub 3HR Fall Marathon Thread - The quest for less amateur glory begins?

Training for Chicago here. Ran my first marathon in 2011 on newbie triathlon training, about 35 mpw...3:03 and an injury. That qualified me for 2013 Boston which I set my PR 2:52:51. Was still doing triathlons, but was more run focused on my build. Took a few shots at sub 2:50 but they were all thwarted by extreme weather (2 hot, 1 cold and headwind). After a brutal 90+ degree 50K in hilly VT (in September!) in 2017 I decided it was time to take a year off of serious training, just about every A race from 2015-2017 had extreme weather and I was mentally drained of the hard training not getting me the times I wanted. This was kind of stupid, because I'd still place decently, but I can be a bit time obsessed.

So after a 25 mpw most of 2018, I started to build later in the year to 35 mpw, then 50 the first few months of 2019. Ran a flat 25K in 1:36:40 in March, a hilly 70K in 6:52:11 in April (not enough miles in my legs...took a month to recover...35 mpw April and May), then a hilly half marathon in 1:23:17 in June. Started my marathon build shortly after that with the goal of sub 2:50...again.

Last week:

S: 12 easy, 3 tempo, 1 easy (sunny, hot, and humid...this has been a pretty hot and humid summer in the north east)

M: 16 mile ride

T: 6.2 treadmill (too hot outside)

W: 15.3 (1K intervals and some 400s near the end)

Th: 7 easy

F: 8.4 easy

S: 6 easy

~59 miles, a little short of the planned 63...oops.

This mornings workout was 2 easy, 12 at marathon pace, 2 easy...it was 75 and 96% humidity (humidity kills me), was able to hold 6:40 avg. on the 12 marathon pace miles. Considering the temp, humidity, and few hundred feet of elevation gain, was pretty happy with that. Still a couple months out, lots of training to go. Sitting at 185 lbs. right now, I could stand to lose a few, but at 6'4"...I don't care to get too skeletal.

Good luck to you all in your goals!

Good thread. I am 32 and took up running after college, had a 2:54 in 2010, but since that I had several injuries and have come back to running more volume in the last few years (3:00 in 2017). Don't really have a goal but would love to take a crack at sub 3 again. This year I've probably averaged around 40-50 miles, had a high of 60 in February (ran 3:33 with my daughter in the stroller in an extremely hot day). Will try to post weekly and follow along on everyone.

I hear ya brother and I hope you do it.

2:40+ at 19 years old and a slew of injuries...too many over too many years but I love to run and will never quit trying. I'm starting over from scratch when I can start running again soon and hoping to be healthy and running 6 days a week by the Winter period. Based on what you've done recently, you've got a GREAT shot at it as do many of the others on here based on their training.

Funny thing, I live in a cold state and back when I was 15 and broke 3 hours, we did nothing but miles, I swear on it. We did no speedwork but did have one run a week where we'd "work it" pretty good and of course a long run on the weekend. With cold and snow, it was miles and miles then give it your best on race day. Today it's different.

Running 6:52 pace for 26.2 at 60 years old is no easy feat, but you CAN do it. The poster who ran 2:57:42 at CIM did it right, easy at the start and work into it. I've got to get my brain of my younger days to change and take it easy, but I've got well over a year, if I stay healthy.

Good luck to all of you! There's only so many Kipchoge's in the world, then there's a bunch of us giving it our best:)

Sub 3hour or blow out an organ trying! wrote:

Smart running at CIM, very motivating! You went out slower for the opening 5k and slowly made it up and got under by over 2 minutes. Well done!

Danke. My coach is a big advocate of starting conservatively, and I also find that I just work best when I ease into the longer races.

CIM wasn't perfect - I got too aggressive in the middle (some 6:35s), which resulted in a very slight fade down to high 6:5x for the last two miles, but otherwise a good race.

I should mention that I intentionally started fairly far back in the field, behind the 3:10 pacer, and then chased down first the 3:10, then the 3:05, and then the 3:00 pace groups over the first half of the race (ran 88:5x for the first half, and caught up to the 3:00 group around mile 12. Once I passed the 3:00 pace group, I knew I had it with room to spare if I could just stay steady. In retrospect, I thought that plan worked very well - the key, of course, is not to panic and chase those groups down too early.

Your coach is right, that's the way to do it. The very slight fade was no big deal as it was on or barely over 3 hour pace (6:52). The faster middle miles are surely what got you solidly under 2:58. It's better to come from behind like that as it feels soooooo good passing runners than having them pass you. Congrats, smart running with great results!

Kudos everyone here is doing great, for me, just looking for a 3:05 before end of year...guess my goal to sub3 will move to 2020

Wanted to post my last few weeks:

M 5 @ 7:28

T: 7.7 @ 7:18

W 6.2 @ 7:22

T: 10 @ 7:18

F: 5 @ 7:28

S: 6.2 @ 7:42 (with 1 year old in stroller)

S: 11 @ 7:20

Week total: 51miles

M: 6 @7:14

T: 7.8 7:11

W: 6.2 @ 7:25

T: 5.4 with 3x1 mile with 90s rest avg: 6:15

Hope everyone is going strong.

Wish I'd done it like that...I missed my corral (long story ~ port-o's, late bus, race-day bib pickup) and ran a sub 6:10 first mile weaving through people. Do not run a marathon like that ha.

Lots of great intel being shared - especially for first-timers such as myself...have added in more heel drops directly after my runs and it helps ALOT. Thank you for that!

Solid week thus far - heading to Lake Placid this week for some great elevation training...hope to close out the week with a 17-mile long run including an 8-mile climb to the top of Whiteface Mtn. (3,700 feet...)

M: EZ commute to work 10.4mi ~8min pace (but each leg has about 400 ft of elevation gain, which has been great for me)

T: Tempo on way to work 1mi warm up / .5 mi @ 550 / .25 break x3; EZ way home (430 pm heat in DC is ROUGH)

W: off - (6am flight for work, post work dinner with clients)

Th: 10 mi run around charles river @ 7:30

What happened to your sub 4 thread?

Moo Goo wrote:

What happened to your sub 4 thread?

That's RunningChef.

I read through the thread here and wanted to join in! Really enjoyed reading everyone's training, experience, and PRs.

I am signed up for my first marathon on September 3rd. It will be hilly and hot.

My build up has been ok, but didn't get the mileage or long run ups nearly as soon as I wanted to. Since the end of June my training has gone well. Mileage has been around 70ish per week. Did my first 20 mile long run a few weeks ago in 2:26:09 - it was so hot and humid that night. Not fast, but it took me a few days... and really almost a week to recover.

Did a shorter long run last week of about 15 with 10 miles right under goal MP. Averaged 6:23 for the 10 mile segment and didn't hurt till the end. I am thinking that 6:30-40 is going to be closer to my actually race pace on a hot and hilly course, but we will see!

Taking a stab at Yasso 800s tomorrow and will report back what I think of the workout!

runnerchef wrote:

Lots of great intel being shared - especially for first-timers such as myself...have added in more heel drops directly after my runs and it helps ALOT. Thank you for that!

Solid week thus far - heading to Lake Placid this week for some great elevation training...hope to close out the week with a 17-mile long run including an 8-mile climb to the top of Whiteface Mtn. (3,700 feet...)

M: EZ commute to work 10.4mi ~8min pace (but each leg has about 400 ft of elevation gain, which has been great for me)

T: Tempo on way to work 1mi warm up / .5 mi @ 550 / .25 break x3; EZ way home (430 pm heat in DC is ROUGH)

W: off - (6am flight for work, post work dinner with clients)

Th: 10 mi run around charles river @ 7:30

What do you do for work that you can run to and from your office?

Different person, but I’m a lawyer and run home from all the time. I leave my suits, ties, and shoes at work and just wear casual pants, runners and my dress shirt to work.

On my way home only thing in my bag is the dress shirt and pants. I’m 3k from my office, so I run home, throw my bag in my car parked outside and then carry on.

I would highly recommend it.

Running to work would also be possible, but my office doesn’t have a shower, so I’d need to join a gym or something, which isn’t worth it for me.

Coffee Monster wrote:

What do you do for work that you can run to and from your office?

I’m in finance - super lucky that my office has a full gym and showers for its employees - I keep 4-5 shirts and few pants there and rotate them out once a week when I run with a backpack. It’s pretty awesome and I sometimes beat traffic going home hah!

runnerchef wrote:

Coffee Monster wrote:

What do you do for work that you can run to and from your office?

I’m in finance - super lucky that my office has a full gym and showers for its employees - I keep 4-5 shirts and few pants there and rotate them out once a week when I run with a backpack. It’s pretty awesome and I sometimes beat traffic going home hah!

That is an awesome perk! I wish there was a shower at my office. It would make going for a a few miles on my lunch, or right before work way easier.

If you are having any type of achilles issues, an 8 mile climb with 3,100 feet gain during a long run, does not sound like a good idea.

To several of the posters above...and I'm sure others will mention this...and I'm sure most/some of you will be defensive...but several of you seem to be running too fast for most of your runs. Truly at the sub-3 threshold and most of your runs are faster than 7:20? I'm not trying to troll y'all or throw a hammer into your works, but I really am questioning, Why? I'm guessing you guys are pushing to get that pace on off-days, and again I'm wondering why?

If this is actually easy, and I'm guessing it's not, consider adding miles...like up to 65-70 mpw for sub 3. But I would actually run slow more...will help to avoid injuries and get the most out of your quality days.

Miles Kipfastguy wrote:

To several of the posters above...and I'm sure others will mention this...and I'm sure most/some of you will be defensive...but several of you seem to be running too fast for most of your runs. Truly at the sub-3 threshold and most of your runs are faster than 7:20? I'm not trying to troll y'all or throw a hammer into your works, but I really am questioning, Why? I'm guessing you guys are pushing to get that pace on off-days, and again I'm wondering why?

If this is actually easy, and I'm guessing it's not, consider adding miles...like up to 65-70 mpw for sub 3. But I would actually run slow more...will help to avoid injuries and get the most out of your quality days.

I often think this. I've only got a 3:01, but most of my easy and regular run days are around 7:50ish on the faster side, but more often than not 8 to 8:20 pace.

At the same time, I've seen a lot of people just run moderately quick miles (like the low to mid 7:00's you point out) and nail the sub 3. I wonder if I could do it that way? And then I wonder if they slowed down and did more on the quality front if they couldn't be in the 2:4X range?

In short, I think most 3 hour runners shouldn't run that fast, but maybe some can.