Sara Hall: Don’t buy into the myth that kids can’t run a lot of mileage in high school or they’ll get hurt/bur

westsouthrunner wrote:

BergLaufer wrote:

https://twitter.com/SaraHall3/status/1150476929209786368?s=20

In hs I ran 75-85 mpw during the summer and handled it great. I agree with her but you can not force someone to do this. the majority of those miles were from 7:30-6:45

ran between 12-15 a day with fridays off every week.

Lots of doubles. 8 & 6 . 6&6 . 8 &4 things like that. and the pace usually was always easy in the afternoons if I did double. Plus we also did track workouts once a week.

the one thing I will say is that my senior season was not what it should have been but that was because I stayed up late every night talking to girls and did not eat healthy and became iron deficient. No stress fractures!!

Ran more in hs than I did in college for sure.

This is a perfect example did you run this from 14?

I'm assuming you built up to this but again "high school" is too broad a description.

Some kid could read this and think right I'll replicate this from first year HS.

Why not just say by 17 I did this training or final year.

It didn't harm you but you ran crap in last year HS then never ran as much in college. You've actually made an argument for lower miles in HS not higher.

You are missing the point.

Hghggg wrote:

It’s not mileage that burns runners out, it’s the duration intensity being too much.

East Africans spend their childhood running EASY miles to and from school.

In terms of training volume its not about distance but duration. A fast runner covers more distance in a certain duration. For instance, a 22 minute 5k girl running 70 mpw covers much more training volume than a 18 minute 5K girl. Obviously they race and train at much different paces. Therefore, the 22 minute girl should top out at 50 miles a week but still be training as much as the 70 girl.

I don't disagree other than say one of my high school daughters ran in low 17 to mid 17's in her junior year with 30 to 40 miles per week. My other daughter who is not as athletically gifted but still loves to run ran mid-21's on 20 to 25 miles a week. I wonder if any 22 minute girls are topping out anywhere near 50 miles a week. If they are still running 22 minutes with that much mileage then I would think they are other factors holding them back from where they should be.

Some college coaches would say high school athletes who run high weekly mileage are much less likely to have much potential to improve in college as they are already running college level weekly mileages.

Grant Fisher was reportedly running 50 miles a week in high school. I think this number was reported during his junior year. I don't know what he ran as a senior.

Coach Hunter-

No offense meant on the "High School" coach comment, I am also a high school coach but am also well versed in the collegiate system and professional world. I totally agree with your supplemental training and can appreciate your success.

I don't want to get off track with the purpose of this post, Sara Hall's belief of ignore the rule of high mileage is bad and run what you want. Young athletes don't know what's good or bad for them. It's the coaches that must guide them and prepare them for future success. My point is that well managed "quality" workouts with ample recovery is better than mileage overload. Be patient and let the body mature and grow properly. Finding that breaking point through excessive mileage is not the proper way to go. Better to be a bit under-developed with room to grow as opposed to going too far and becoming injured and discouraged.

Congrats on your success and the best of luck to you son.

BHS

rojo wrote:

foxboro 10k wrote:

Well, she just ran a 10k in Foxboro, they listed her age as 18.

Tilastopaja lists her DOB as Date of birth: 18 June 18 2003 meaning she just turned 16 less than a month ago.

That correlates with published reports of her being 15 all last year.

So she turned 16 less than a month ago, yet she was 15 all last year? You want to explain how that could be possible?

Ritz ran 80+ MPW in high school, he is still going strong as a pro. Didn't see any of his class mates surpass him or have better longevity.

One of the major problems with running 70+mpw in high school for girls is that very few college programs run enough that this sort of athlete can keep progressing their volume and improving.

The highest mileage girl I ever coached averaged just over 50mpw from the time she finished her junior year until she graduated high school. That includes a few lighter weeks building back up in summer and a few weeks off after a long XC season that ended at NXN. Her typical week was right around 60mpw. She had several weeks over the course of the year at 70mpw, but again her overall average for that 52 week span was just over 50mpw.

The college she went to said they are all about individualizing training and though she ran more in high school than most of her future teammates did in high school, they would be fine with her continuing to increase her mileage. That has absolutely not happened. She runs less in college than she did in high school because very few college coaches tailor the training to their athletes needs. Most colleges are a one-sized-fits-all philosophy and much of them train year round like they are 800/1500 runners.

If the athlete is motivated, healthy and progresses up to 70mpw (if they are truly averaging 70mpw over the course of a year this is a LOT in high school) I have no issue with it, but those of you advocating this and are in the know can you do me a huge favor? Can you please list the appropriate colleges to attend that will allow a high school senior that averaged 70mpw move up to 75+mpw as a freshman in college, 80-85mpw as a sophomore, 85-95mw as a junior and 90-105mpw as a senior?

Not a math whizz wrote:

rojo wrote:

Tilastopaja lists her DOB as Date of birth: 18 June 18 2003 meaning she just turned 16 less than a month ago.

That correlates with published reports of her being 15 all last year.

So she turned 16 less than a month ago, yet she was 15 all last year? You want to explain how that could be possible?

Because he obviously meant all of last [school] year.

It's called running more in your own free time.

BUTTHOLE SURFER wrote:

My point is that well managed "quality" workouts with ample recovery is better than mileage overload. Be patient and let the body mature and grow properly. Finding that breaking point through excessive mileage is not the proper way to go.

You don't seem to realize that you're largely in agreement with both Hall and Hunter. They never advocated for haphazardly ramping up mileage beyond what someone can handle. The point is that what many people think is an "overload" actually might not be, especially if the athlete is self-motivated and really enjoys running more mileage, and their body can handle it. You can get in well-managed "quality" workouts, with ample recovery, and also run enough mileage to fulfill your potential without it being a mileage "overload".

100 MPW is more mental than physical wrote:

It's called running more in your own free time.

It's also called having to do secret workouts and hope like he.l your coach doesn't find out. Not a good situation at all.

"just a hs coach" wrote:

100 MPW is more mental than physical wrote:

It's called running more in your own free time.

It's also called having to do secret workouts and hope like he.l your coach doesn't find out. Not a good situation at all.

Yeah, because God forbid I put in a extra hour of work.

100 MPW is more mental than physical wrote:

"just a hs coach" wrote:

It's also called having to do secret workouts and hope like he.l your coach doesn't find out. Not a good situation at all.

Yeah, because God forbid I put in a extra hour of work.

Maybe you're just trolling at this point, but there are not many coaches out there in high school or college that are fond of their athletes doing secret workouts. When your college coach tells you very specifically the mileage they want you to run and then you say "nah, i'm going to put in extra work on the side" you are definitely at risk of losing your scholarship.

reer wrote:

BUTTHOLE SURFER wrote:

My point is that well managed "quality" workouts with ample recovery is better than mileage overload. Be patient and let the body mature and grow properly. Finding that breaking point through excessive mileage is not the proper way to go.

You don't seem to realize that you're largely in agreement with both Hall and Hunter. They never advocated for haphazardly ramping up mileage beyond what someone can handle. The point is that what many people think is an "overload" actually might not be, especially if the athlete is self-motivated and really enjoys running more mileage, and their body can handle it. You can get in well-managed "quality" workouts, with ample recovery, and also run enough mileage to fulfill your potential without it being a mileage "overload".

Lots more agreement on this thread than disagreement.

1) gradual progression is better than drastic

2) above applies to quantity and quality

3) motivation should come from the kids

4) hard work usually yields good results

Disagreement on arbitrary numbers that quantify what is a high mileage.

I think sara’s point (at least what I took away) is to avoid the trap of hating on kids running what you think is a lot without knowing what they are ready for and capable of.

She is probably tired of people putting words in her mouth, and I think it’s a great debate. Hopefully she doesn’t regret any backlash and maybe some coaches will open their minds by reading this thread.

"just a hs coach" wrote:

100 MPW is more mental than physical wrote:

Yeah, because God forbid I put in a extra hour of work.

Maybe you're just trolling at this point, but there are not many coaches out there in high school or college that are fond of their athletes doing secret workouts. When your college coach tells you very specifically the mileage they want you to run and then you say "nah, i'm going to put in extra work on the side" you are definitely at risk of losing your scholarship.

Never had a coach that was like that, mine encouraged as much as we can handle. Was never specific on numbers. Focused more on how the athlete is feeling. If the athlete feels ok, why shouldn't they do a second or even third run in the day?

100 MPW is more mental than physical wrote:

"just a hs coach" wrote:

Maybe you're just trolling at this point, but there are not many coaches out there in high school or college that are fond of their athletes doing secret workouts. When your college coach tells you very specifically the mileage they want you to run and then you say "nah, i'm going to put in extra work on the side" you are definitely at risk of losing your scholarship.

Never had a coach that was like that, mine encouraged as much as we can handle. Was never specific on numbers. Focused more on how the athlete is feeling. If the athlete feels ok, why shouldn't they do a second or even third run in the day?

Maybe you've never had a coach like that, but what I'm trying to tell you is that coaches like the one you had are few and far between. Most coaches ARE specific with numbers and most coaches don't really care how their athletes are feeling. That's why I'm asking what college programs have coaches more like the one you had. Maybe you could help get that started by letting us know who your coach was and what program they are currently heading.

"just a hs coach" wrote:

100 MPW is more mental than physical wrote:

Never had a coach that was like that, mine encouraged as much as we can handle. Was never specific on numbers. Focused more on how the athlete is feeling. If the athlete feels ok, why shouldn't they do a second or even third run in the day?

Maybe you've never had a coach like that, but what I'm trying to tell you is that coaches like the one you had are few and far between. Most coaches ARE specific with numbers and most coaches don't really care how their athletes are feeling. That's why I'm asking what college programs have coaches more like the one you had. Maybe you could help get that started by letting us know who your coach was and what program they are currently heading.

That's the problem with a lot of coaches, they get caught up with various numbers, but they don't focus on the most important metric. How is the athlete feeling? You can if you want, plan out every single detail of your life. But is that really any better than having some guidelines and taking it day by day? I don't think so.

ritz cracken wrote:

Ritz ran 80+ MPW in high school, he is still going strong as a pro. Didn't see any of his class mates surpass him or have better longevity.

Um, yea he has been great at times, but often injured and may not have ever reached his full potential because of that fact. it is very likely that all that hammering in HS effed up the development of bones, tendon, musculoskeletal system. Just like running puppies too much injures there growth plates.

If she is tired of people putting words in her mouth maybe she should stop providing them with so many opportunities. You know the saying "you can say nothing and people will wonder if you are intelligent or not or you can open your mouth and remove all doubt"