Never say never!)))
Never say never!)))
proverb wrote:
Never say never!)))
Never, well unless, he has another person coach him and takes a MASSIVE amount of PED's
JS is a great coach. He knows exactly what to change. Will take some time ,but then, boom! Sub 2.19!
He is the best! wrote:
JS is a great coach. He knows exactly what to change. Will take some time ,but then, boom! Sub 2.19!
JS you posted yesterday that this would be your last post for some time, but today you posted again, and now under an anonymous name.
20x400 is no joke!! Do you guys think a different lower mileage marathon system would have worked better or is the marathon just a high mileage event?
Not Sage wrote:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1ljNA7jlXhE20x400 is no joke!! Do you guys think a different lower mileage marathon system would have worked better or is the marathon just a high mileage event?
I definitely think it is just a high mileage event.
Of course, one can still do a marathon, and do one fairly well, on lower mileage. My own personal thoughts are that this particular low mileage plan put too much emphasis on high intensity work. Phil did a ton of miles at VO2 pace and paces just faster than his threshold (I think JS was excited he was getting the paces he did, but they were much faster than the calculators suggest based on his 10 mile race time). So he was getting efficient at running pretty fast. Not efficient at going long and burning fats.
I think he could have possibly done better on the same mileage, hit a long run workout each weekend, and a midweek workout that mostly focused on +/- 15 seconds of half marathon pace. Basically, use the limited mileage to get as specific as possible for the event.
marathonismiles wrote:
I definitely think it is just a high mileage event.
Of course, one can still do a marathon, and do one fairly well, on lower mileage. My own personal thoughts are that this particular low mileage plan put too much emphasis on high intensity work. Phil did a ton of miles at VO2 pace and paces just faster than his threshold (I think JS was excited he was getting the paces he did, but they were much faster than the calculators suggest based on his 10 mile race time). So he was getting efficient at running pretty fast. Not efficient at going long and burning fats.
I think he could have possibly done better on the same mileage, hit a long run workout each weekend, and a midweek workout that mostly focused on +/- 15 seconds of half marathon pace. Basically, use the limited mileage to get as specific as possible for the event.
+1
getting faster at 10mi and below, and getting faster in the marathon aren't usually the same identical 'system'. The postive results leading up to this race don't show that what he was doing was good for the marathon, it showed that it's reasonable for 10mi or less racing...because he was doing a bunch of running at 10mi or less pacing!
Brad Hudson just put up a really nice post on Instagram (@coach___hudson) about one of his on-line athletes running 2:17:27 at CIM. The mileage and workouts for his 12 week block are all listed. Good reading and very sensible marathon training. It's time to move on and learn about marathon training. I hope Phil takes the time to read it and even reaches out to Brad.
Far Out West wrote:
Brad Hudson just put up a really nice post on Instagram (@coach___hudson) about one of his on-line athletes running 2:17:27 at CIM. The mileage and workouts for his 12 week block are all listed. Good reading and very sensible marathon training. It's time to move on and learn about marathon training. I hope Phil takes the time to read it and even reaches out to Brad.
Thanks for that. Really cool read.
Most of us can't run a 2:20 marathon whether we run 60 mile weeks or 160 mile weeks. But higher mileage is much more likely to get you there than lower mileage. That said, there are people who have run around 2:20 or faster on the kind of miles Phil was doing. Jack Foster got a high 2:12 on that sort of volume. The 2:11 came from doubles and higher miles. There are many other examples. But for most people, 60-75 miles a week is not likely to be enough, magic interval sessions or no.
I feel like I got close to my potential on about that 60-75 in my last training cycle, but that’s because (1) I cross trained on the elliptical some for additional aerobic work, which I had to do because of a tendency toward injury, (2) that tendency toward injury limits my volume and that volume limitation lowers my potential, and (3) I had run in the 70-90 range in past cycles and was carrying some of that fitness as a result of my last marathon being my 4th in four years (with a 5th cycle aborted during that period (see again “tendency toward injury”)).
If my body could hold up to 100-120 mpw,
I’d have run faster. But that’s kind of like saying if I had a naturally bigger aerobic engine, I’d have run faster. It’s part of the construct of who I am as a runner.
Look at all those next% in the 2:19 pack!! Talk about Nike domination
Phil is in there somewhere, taken at the 10k mark
He is the best! wrote:
JS is a great coach. He knows exactly what to change. Will take some time ,but then, boom! Sub 2.19!
A bunch of BS JS!!!
SUPERIOR COACH JS wrote:
Below Average wrote:
Can it be done? Maybe sneak in one or two 90s. Some background...I ran 8:20/14:30/30:30 in college then went right into marathon training and ran a 2:22 debut right after graduating with 100-120 miles per week of great training.
Following that things kind of fell apart and I started focusing on other things. Fast forward 10 years. I have a super hot 9.5 wife, 2 kids, make 6 figures working 50 hr weeks. Sub 14 5k looks unlikely, I’m not motivated enough to make $250k, and I’m not going to leave my wife for a 10.
I know 2:19 I far from elite, but I think it would be a pretty big accomplishment for a below average guy like myself. I took about 4 years off running before starting some light jogging to lose some weight and feel better at the end of 2017. By mid 2018 I had lost 30 lbs and ran a 32:00 10k off 40-50 miles per week. I’ve continued to progress in 2019 running 60-80 miles per week and have run a 15:10 5k and 31:30 10k so far.
I’m heading in the right direction and feeling good, but 2:19 is a huge jump. I’m signed up for CIM already. I am extremely limited on time so doubling isn’t really an option. I feel 80 miles per week is about as much as i can consistently run. I ask again, can it be done?
Interesting case for the magic wizard! Your PR:s are almost the same as myself ( with the difference I did 8:20/14:20/29.51 and 2:22 marathon when age 27-28).Can it be done on 60-80 mpw? Absolutely! It can even be done on your former 40-50 mpw!But as I always use to say: How much you run is not most important.It`s how you run your miles that counts most! This case is almost like someone (you) is kidding with me and knows that I had almost the exakt same PR:s and absolutely would get caught up by this . I have told before that the only thing I did wrong in my training back then was that I didn`t know the importance of LT-intervals and instead ran slower tempos,and also when it comes to the marathon I didn`t run my long runs as specific long with fast parts, mostly fast finish last 10-40 min in intervals or sustained.If you want me to coach you I would just love it and I promise to do it for free.Just contact me at facebook or twitter or my email :
magic@coachjs.se....and we will talk about how to plan your journey to sub 2:20 . Sounds good! - The Magic Wizard - COACH J.S
Looks like you FAILED miserably JS and Phil has moved on and left you. What's the NEXT GREAT project? Will you come out and say Phil is suffering from some magic sickness,like everyone who you coach seems to do?
Interesting, how did you hear about Phil?
There was another thread with JS's bs going on, but can't find that one either.
I wish Phil the best of luck in his next training plan and race!
Cheers,
Prove it! wrote:
SUPERIOR COACH JS wrote:
Interesting case for the magic wizard! Your PR:s are almost the same as myself ( with the difference I did 8:20/14:20/29.51 and 2:22 marathon when age 27-28).Can it be done on 60-80 mpw? Absolutely! It can even be done on your former 40-50 mpw!But as I always use to say: How much you run is not most important.It`s how you run your miles that counts most! This case is almost like someone (you) is kidding with me and knows that I had almost the exakt same PR:s and absolutely would get caught up by this . I have told before that the only thing I did wrong in my training back then was that I didn`t know the importance of LT-intervals and instead ran slower tempos,and also when it comes to the marathon I didn`t run my long runs as specific long with fast parts, mostly fast finish last 10-40 min in intervals or sustained.If you want me to coach you I would just love it and I promise to do it for free.Just contact me at facebook or twitter or my email :
magic@coachjs.se....and we will talk about how to plan your journey to sub 2:20 . Sounds good! - The Magic Wizard - COACH J.S
Looks like you FAILED miserably JS and Phil has moved on and left you. What's the NEXT GREAT project? Will you come out and say Phil is suffering from some magic sickness,like everyone who you coach seems to do?
I don't agree! JS helped Phil to run a PR at 10 miles and some really solid solo 5 k wins. I agree with JS Phil has to improve his shorter distances before the next marathon attempt.
So if someone races well over 5k-10 miles but falls apart in the marathon, they need to work on their speed more?
There are guys in the Trials who would lose to Phil in shorter stuff. He needs to work on his endurance and metabolic fuel tank.
SouthernFriedRealist wrote:
So if someone races well over 5k-10 miles but falls apart in the marathon, they need to work on their speed more?
There are guys in the Trials who would lose to Phil in shorter stuff. He needs to work on his endurance and metabolic fuel tank.
One of your very many replies I completely agree with!
I don't understand the reason for thinking Phil needs more speed instead of endurance.
Because the post above mine is JS!
SalAl wrote:
Prove it! wrote:
Looks like you FAILED miserably JS and Phil has moved on and left you. What's the NEXT GREAT project? Will you come out and say Phil is suffering from some magic sickness,like everyone who you coach seems to do?
I don't agree! JS helped Phil to run a PR at 10 miles and some really solid solo 5 k wins. I agree with JS Phil has to improve his shorter distances before the next marathon attempt.
Thanks. Hi JS! You aren't embarrassed enough already on here?