2:19 on 70-80 miles per week.

Hello dunes runner! :) Well.......sometimes my runners just want to see what they can do the last rep. They just want to see "what`s left in the box". It`s okey with me......but I know they don`t have to. My philosophy about this is that the runner should always feel able to do one more rep at the same pace as all other reps before if it was a demand.

I just count it manually lol. I have a wrist heart rate monitor on my watch, but it’s not very accurate. The rest is usually pretty predictable at this point, so I usually find my heart rate with my fingers around 30-35 seconds and count my heartbeat for 10 second increments until it gets down to 20 beats in 10 seconds. When I can feel it quickly dropping I’ll count for 5 seconds (10 beats) so I can keep the rest as low as possible. I was going to buy a good heart rate monitor, but I’ve grown to really like manually counting it. It makes me feel more connected to my body if that makes any sense.

I’m not sure what my max heart rate was. I think my watch said 160, but I doubt that’s correct. I don’t really pay attention to heart rate besides the 120 beats for recovery time.

I meant *noting - not nothing.

SUPERIOR COACH JS wrote:

Hello dunes runner! :) Well.......sometimes my runners just want to see what they can do the last rep. They just want to see "what`s left in the box". It`s okey with me......but I know they don`t have to. My philosophy about this is that the runner should always feel able to do one more rep at the same pace as all other reps before if it was a demand.

Thanks. :)

Below Average wrote:

I just count it manually lol.

That sounds tough, though I used to do the same thing. :)

Coach JS, how do most of your runners keep track of the heart rate?

dunes runner wrote:

I meant *noting - not nothing.

[quote]SUPERIOR COACH JS wrote:

Coach JS, how do most of your runners keep track of the heart rate?

The answer is......they don`t have to! )) The most important part of interval training is the recovery, and all my runners rest down to 120 bpm and that`s easy to count manually down back to 120 bpm.= 20 beats in 10 sec counting.

Below Average wrote:

I’m not sure what my max heart rate was. I think my watch said 160, but I doubt that’s correct. I don’t really pay attention to heart rate besides the 120 beats for recovery time.

This is a very approximate way of counting your Hr. For something that is so integral to the training system, seems odd to do it in a rather haphazard way. How do you know you’re not only recovering to 130bpm?

Alberto salazaaar wrote:

This is a very approximate way of counting your Hr. For something that is so integral to the training system, seems odd to do it in a rather haphazard way. How do you know you’re not only recovering to 130bpm?

I agree, but it's probably close enough. On the Kamworor thread, he and Kipchoge reportedly do them with 30 second rests, which is what I have done many times and still do, i.e. 60 seconds for me (not 400 meters) with 30 second recoveries.

FrodeCph wrote:

reports coming in he & Eliud closed the last 10k of a 30k LR in 27:4x on roads at 2400m and did 20x400m in 62" with only 30" rest, all while doing 200km a week.

Almighty Coach JS,

I am interested in what you think this 4 week segment (at 5280 ft elevation), 5-2 weeks out from my marathon, resulted in time-wise? Other important information, I was 30 years old, wife is 10/10. 5k PR 15:20 from college.

I will be racing CIM with similar training (but, averaging only 80 miles per week (I will have 15 years of 100+ miles weeks under my belt though), 6 runs a week this upcoming block for CIM. 37 years old. Let me know if you think I can beat Phil.

Mon- AM 8 miles-57:35 (7:10 average)

PM- 4 miles- 27:58 (6:33)/12 total for the day

Tues- AM 3 w/u (warm up), 1 mile of strides and drills, 2x800 and 2 mile tempo and 8x 100 meter hill sprints, 2:23 (800 jog recov) 2:24 (1600 jog recov) 2 mile: 11:06 (5:29, 5:37), 6 c/d (cool down)= 16 total for the AM

PM- 4- 28:09 (7:00 avg)/ 20 for the day

Wed- AM 4 miles- 28:52 (7:12)

PM 8 miles- 54:22 (6:47)/ 12 for the day

Thur AM 4 miles- 29:05 (7:15)

PM 3.5 w/u, 1 mile strides/drills, 8x200 with 200 jog recovery (wind at back for hard sessions) 31, 33, 31, 31, 31, 30, 31, 31; 8x 100 meter hill sprints, 4.5 c/d= 12 miles/ 16 for the day

Fri AM 4 miles- 28:51 (7:13)

PM- 8 miles- 54:54 (6:50)/ 12 for the day

Sat AM 16 miles- 1:58:51 (7:25 avg) at Gold Hill (~8500 feet elevation and tons of hills, killed me!)/ 16 miles for the day

Sun AM- 12 miles- 1:24:04 (6:59)

PM 12 miles- 1:27:05 (7:10)/ 24 for the day

Week total: 112 miles (4 weeks until marathon)

Mon AM 8 miles- 56:54 (7:07)

PM- 4 miles- 29:34 (7:12)/ 12 miles for the day

Tues AM 5 w/u, 1 mile strides/drills, 2 mile: 10:44 (5:20, 5:23), 800 jog recovery, 4x800 with 400 jog recovery 2:35, 2:34, 2:34, 2:33, 800 jog recovery, 2 mile: 10:54 (5:30, 5:24), 3 c/d=17

PM 4- 28:47 (7:05)/ 21 for the day

Wed AM 8-57:25 (7:10)

PM 4- 28:30 (7:07)/ 12 for the day

Thur AM 8- 6 w/u, 8x100 meter hill sprints, 1 c/d

PM 3 w/u, 1 mile stides/drills, 4x400 with 400 jog recovery 69,66, 69, 69, 2 c/d= 8 miles/ 16 for the day

Fri AM 4- 29:43 (7:32)

PM 8- 56:06 (7:00)/ 12 for the day

Sat AM 8-57:07 (7:09)

PM 4- 29:07 (7:08)/ 12 for the day

Sun AM 20- 2:07:38 (6:19) in Boulder. 7:24 pace progressing to 5:31

PM 4- 27:58 (7:02)/ 24 for the day

Week total: 109 miles (3 weeks to marathon)

Mon AM 8 miles- 58:15 (7:16)

PM 4 miles- 28:53 (7:12)/ 12 miles for the day

Tues AM 4 w/u, 1 mile strides/drills, 2x3 miles with 1 mile recovery 16:02 (5:20, 5:22, 5:19) and 16:09 (5:29, 5:24, 5:16), 4 c/d= 16 miles

PM 4 miles- 28:32 (7:05)/ 20 for the day

Wed AM 8- 56:58 (7:06)

PM 4- 28:46 (7:10)/ 12 for the day

Thur AM 8- 56:42 (7:04)

PM 3 w/u, 1 mile strides/drills, 2x800 with 400 jog recovery 2:29 and 2:29, 3 c/d= 8 miles/ 16 for the day

Fri AM 8- 57:40 (7:11)

PM 4- 28:28 (6:59)/ 12 for the day

Sat AM 20- 2:12:41 (6:37 avg) at Rollinsville (8,500 ft going up to over 9,200 ft at Moffat Tunnel) starting at 7:27 pace and progressing to 5:52 pace/ 20 for the day

Sun AM 8- 55:21 (6:54)

PM 4- 29:31/ 12 for the day

Week total: 104 miles (2 weeks to marathon)

Mon AM 8- 57:38 (7:13)

PM 4- 28:07 (7:03)/ 12 for the day

Tues AM 6 w/u, 1 mile stride/drills, attempted 6 mile tempo (failed), 34:31 (5:33, 5:30, 5:43, 5:44, jogged a 6:31, 5:28), 3 c/d=16 miles for AM

PM 4- 27:21- (6:49)/ 20 for the day

Wed AM 8-56:48 (7:05)

PM 4- 28:56 (7:06)/ 12 for the day

Thur AM 4- 28:58 (7:15)

PM 8- 3 w/u, 1 mile strides/drills, 1 mile: 4:54 (leg speed!), 3 c/d/ 12 for the day

Fri AM 4- 29:39

PM 8- 57:17 (6:56)/ 12 for the day

Sat AM 6 w/u, 1 mile strides, 3 mile tempo 15:54 (5:25, 5:20, 5:08), 6 c/d= 16 for the AM

PM 4- 28:15 (7:02)/ 20 for the day

Sun AM 4- 2816 (7:02)

PM 4- 28:24 (7:05)/ 8 for the day

Week total: 96 miles (less than 1 week until marathon)

Signed,

Well Below Average

PS- I will let you know what my time actually was.

There is going to be a great pack of crusty old guys getting after it. Can we all just hold hands and pull each other to 2:19? This seems like a trap...you ran 2:17?

dunes runner wrote:

Alberto salazaaar wrote:

This is a very approximate way of counting your Hr. For something that is so integral to the training system, seems odd to do it in a rather haphazard way. How do you know you’re not only recovering to 130bpm?

I agree, but it's probably close enough. On the Kamworor thread, he and Kipchoge reportedly do them with 30 second rests, which is what I have done many times and still do, i.e. 60 seconds for me (not 400 meters) with 30 second recoveries.

FrodeCph wrote:

reports coming in he & Eliud closed the last 10k of a 30k LR in 27:4x on roads at 2400m and did 20x400m in 62" with only 30" rest, all while doing 200km a week.

It happens they do 20 x 400m with 30 sec rest but it`s not Always that rest......normal is 200m jog or about 1 min .I know because I was very close to be the coach for Kamworor in the fall 2016.Usually 1 min rest when doing 20 x 400m that fast as about 62 sec .

Alberto salazaaar wrote:

Below Average wrote:

I’m not sure what my max heart rate was. I think my watch said 160, but I doubt that’s correct. I don’t really pay attention to heart rate besides the 120 beats for recovery time.

This is a very approximate way of counting your Hr. For something that is so integral to the training system, seems odd to do it in a rather haphazard way. How do you know you’re not only recovering to 130bpm?

If you count your pulse for 10 sec and wait until back to 20 beats in 10 sec you are sure the pulse is 120 bpm OR LESS, not a chance it has increased to 130 .

Hehe! With a wife 10/10 I think you are in great shape to match her. Anyway it`s hard to say for anyone how fast you did run out from varied altitude and paces and so on. But if you add your race times at shorter races up to that marathon it`s no problems for me to say what time you had.If you have a chance to beat Phil? Well .......it`s more 13 weeks to go , I will tell you 2 weeks from raceday . :) Cheers!

With a 12 x 400m workout at 66.5 sec average Phil was back to normal training again after his great performance last Sunday 15:08 at 5 k road race ( a tough second mile with 4 hills) .

11 weeks down, 12 to go. First week of the marathon build up with a real long run. If I continue to progress like I have anything is possible. Maybe the Magic Wizard is on to something?

M: 50 min easy, 7.26 miles, 6:53 pace

T: 14.8 miles. Bombed workout. 15x1k @3:05-3:08 on the schedule. Way off today, pulled the plug at 10. Tired from work and kids, 5 hrs of sleep, 70’s and 70 dew point, prob tired from the race, excuses excuses excuses

3:07.0, 45.8

3:09.3, 54.1

3:08.8, 58.6

3:09.4, 57.7

3:10.6, 64.2

3:10.1, 73.8

3:12.7, 90

3:13.7, 80.5

3:13.8, 78.7

3:15.7, 76.6

W: 60 min easy, 9.2 miles, 6:31 pace (treadmill run because of morning thunderstorms)

Th: 12x400, 10 miles total

66.9, 53.1

66.6, 54.4

66.9, 58.1

66.3, 67.4

66.7, 64.6

66.9, 69.2

66.6, 69.9

66.1, 70.6

66.4, 73.2

66.4, 73.5

66.0, 74.9

66.4, 72.3

F 50 min easy, 7.1 miles, 7:02 pace.

S: 2 hr long run with last 30 min 1 min on 1 min off, 19.32, 6:12 pace. 5:33 pace last 30 min, 5:02 average for 15 min of “on”

S: Rest

Total: 67.68 (77.68 with 4 hard efforts the last 7 days for all the 60 mile per week haters)

Congrats to another very good week Phil! :) Yes , now the final countdown begins …...That first main specific long run at 2 hours was really impressive! How did you feel during and after that run?

Felt great during the run. I didn’t set out to run that fast, but I settled into 6:15 pace without pushing so I just went with it. Although I’d rather not be working all day right after it, I'm feeling good after as well.

6:15 easy pace is for a runner capable of sub 14 min 5 k , a 29 min 10 k and a sub 2:14 marathon! Interesting indeed.

Below Average wrote:

Felt great during the run. I didn’t set out to run that fast, but I settled into 6:15 pace without pushing so I just went with it. Although I’d rather not be working all day right after it, I'm feeling good after as well.

Really look like you made a dramatic improvement.Sub 2.19 on 70-80 miles per week now looks to be realistic in CIM.Please continue update us.

Very inspiring.Good luck!

I'll put in a guess here (but like Coach JS says it is hard to predict): 2:21:xx I do know the Boulder area and these look like workouts I'd do before a 2:20 or so (I'm not very good at altitude though...even only at 5280'). But you could've run a bit faster or much slower? Maybe even a 2:23-2:24? So you did this 7 years ago? (you were 30 then and 37 now)? Depending on how my mountain season ends next week I'll likely be making an OTQ run at CIM as well. Finding more power and better running form this summer on only 60-70mpw lately. I think there is a lot of truth into "getting back the speed-efficiency" by doing "Economy Reps" like 16-20 x 400m and then 1km repeats as key workouts ....even for marathon training. For a guy that has run a lot of 100mpw in the past decade I think that is a good way to go. If I'm doing 1km repeats close to 3:00 first then longer Tempos and other more marathon specific workouts at 5:10-5:00 pace come back naturally. ...and to do 1km repeats around 3:00, it sure helps to be able to do a lot of 400s all under 70.0. on a short rest. Even in college (12 years ago for me) I ran 2:21 in the marathon off of a full season of 5km-10km racing and training (track) + 4 weeks of a few ("extension" long runs). But average mileage was probably only in the 80-90mpw range for the last 2-3 months. Interesting following this thread...