Ben True - 7 Straight Years 13:12 or Faster

sit and kick wrote:

I thought Ben's strengths were clearly in the 1500/3000/5000/10000

no idea why you geniuses think he should move up

I believe Ben has broken 3:40 for 1500m one time in his career.

Yet on the roads and in XC, he has won the NYC Half in his first ever attempt at the distance. He has been 6th at 12k world cross, he has won BAA 5k, Beach to Beacon 10k, Manchester Road Race, and US 10k Road titles, He has been far better racing on the roads and grass than the track.

Then there’s his training (public from Strava):

- Consistent weeks of 100-110miles over many months consecutively

- Multiple 40minute tempos at 4:50 pace (8+ Miles)

- 10mi tempo over hills at 5:06 pace

- Lots of 7-10mi fartleks averaging around 5minute pace

- Lots of 18-20milers at or under 6:00 pace

For someone training for 5000m, I would he certainly displays a lot of traits for someone with potential to run well in the marathon; most notably, durability.

He's consistently top 5 in the US at 5K and 10K. The marathon is totally different and I don't think he'll have as much success at it when he does move up. Jordan Hasay does easy 20 milers at 6:00 pace, that doesn't prove much.

Two words: Bob Kempainen

Nordic Skier

Slightly oversized

Strong XC Runner

Top US Marathoner

shsbbaba wrote:

Then there’s his training (public from Strava):

- Consistent weeks of 100-110miles over many months consecutively

- Multiple 40minute tempos at 4:50 pace (8+ Miles)

- 10mi tempo over hills at 5:06 pace

- Lots of 7-10mi fartleks averaging around 5minute pace

- Lots of 18-20milers at or under 6:00 pace

For someone training for 5000m, I would he certainly displays a lot of traits for someone with potential to run well in the marathon; most notably, durability.

Those workouts that you cited are the stuff that 2:15 - 2:16 marathoners do. If that's your case for marathoning ability then True should stick with the track.

Plus they both went to Dartmouth

How does the fact that he won the BAA 5k indicate that he's well-suited for the marathon? Even if your point is that he's better at the roads than on the track (which I don't agree with at all), how does that in any way indicate he'd be good at the marathon? If anything it just further cements in my mind that his best event is the 5k.

Your points about the BAA Half and World XC are a little bit stronger, but these are still very different events from the marathon. Lots of guys who are good at the half and xc aren't that great at the marathon (Tadese and Ritz for example), and lots of guys who are great at the marathon aren't that good at the shorter distances.

I was so pumped about his performance I started my own thread about it, but this OP did more homework on it so good job.

sit and kick wrote:

I thought Ben's strengths were clearly in the 1500/3000/5000/10000

no idea why you geniuses think he should move up

Nobody at Letsrun should be called a genius. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein. ;-)

definite olympian wrote:

how many Yankees do you think will run better than the olympic standard by the trials (13:13:.50)? My guess maybe 3-4 tops. He has got to make it!!!!!!

Paul Chelimo narrowly missed it thus far (13:13.94)

Hassy ran 13:20 something in the DL this year

who else does US have for 5k contention?

USATF i do not think will go for the gold label event for the trials at this rate, so we will probably just send the 3 guys with the standard.

By next year's trials, there will be many more with the 13:13 standard.

Eric Jenkins has a 13:07 PB. From this year: Emmanuel Bor 13:10, Hilary Bor 13:14, Kirubel Erassa 13:17. Kipchirchir has a 13:18 he can probably improve based on his xc trials win.

Grant Fisher ran 7:42 indoor and will be training as a pro. I expect him to get 13:13. Andrew Hunter and Sean McGorty are very capable.

Including Chelimo, True and Mead, that's eleven guys and there could be more.

I doubt "standard vs rankings" will be a practical issue when it comes to the M5000m selection.

definite olympian wrote:

how many Yankees do you think will run better than the olympic standard by the trials (13:13:.50)? My guess maybe 3-4 tops. He has got to make it!!!!!!

Paul Chelimo narrowly missed it thus far (13:13.94)

Hassy ran 13:20 something in the DL this year

who else does US have for 5k contention?

USATF i do not think will go for the gold label event for the trials at this rate, so we will probably just send the 3 guys with the standard.

This is a great stat, have always like Ben. For what it's worth, during that time he has always run well at road 5k's. Would like to see him in the marathon, but would like to see him make a team at the 5k/10k.

I think we'll see a large list of guys hit the standard. 13:13 isn't 13:00. Maybe: Chelimo, Mead, Jenkins, Hill, Kipchirchir, Lomong, McGorty, Fisher. Maybe another NCAA guy emerges, maybe one or two milers try to step up like a Centro or Hunter. I agree that he will be a contender/favorite (after Chelimo), like always, but if everyone has the standard and it's a 13:30+ kind of race I can see anywhere from a 2 to 8 kind of a finish.

malmo wrote:

shsbbaba wrote:

Then there’s his training (public from Strava):

- Consistent weeks of 100-110miles over many months consecutively

- Multiple 40minute tempos at 4:50 pace (8+ Miles)

- 10mi tempo over hills at 5:06 pace

- Lots of 7-10mi fartleks averaging around 5minute pace

- Lots of 18-20milers at or under 6:00 pace

For someone training for 5000m, I would he certainly displays a lot of traits for someone with potential to run well in the marathon; most notably, durability.

Those workouts that you cited are the stuff that 2:15 - 2:16 marathoners do. If that's your case for marathoning ability then True should stick with the track.

Chill. That's not how it works. He's doing those workouts while training for the 5k/10k. So he's throwing down a session like 5 x 1k in 2:3x & hitting something like the above on other days. He popped a 1:02 half & won NYC in 2018. He's been a good 10k runner. Let's not pretend he's a 2:15-16 marathoner because you're taking a workout he does in 5k/10k training & calling it his ceiling. I think that shows some range. What happens if he's not hammering the faster intervals and has just a 10 mile tempo with hills in a given weeks. Is he running that in the 4:40s/50s? Probably.

NERunner053 wrote:

malmo wrote:

Those workouts that you cited are the stuff that 2:15 - 2:16 marathoners do. If that's your case for marathoning ability then True should stick with the track.

Chill. That's not how it works. He's doing those workouts while training for the 5k/10k. So he's throwing down a session like 5 x 1k in 2:3x & hitting something like the above on other days. He popped a 1:02 half & won NYC in 2018. He's been a good 10k runner. Let's not pretend he's a 2:15-16 marathoner because you're taking a workout he does in 5k/10k training & calling it his ceiling. I think that shows some range. What happens if he's not hammering the faster intervals and has just a 10 mile tempo with hills in a given weeks. Is he running that in the 4:40s/50s? Probably.

You're telling me how it works?

7 straight years of running near your highest level is impressive for anyone.

Had to go that long without having a bad year.

Doing it clean would be even more impressive!

How do you know... he’s clean for sure

malmo wrote:

NERunner053 wrote:

Chill. That's not how it works. He's doing those workouts while training for the 5k/10k. So he's throwing down a session like 5 x 1k in 2:3x & hitting something like the above on other days. He popped a 1:02 half & won NYC in 2018. He's been a good 10k runner. Let's not pretend he's a 2:15-16 marathoner because you're taking a workout he does in 5k/10k training & calling it his ceiling. I think that shows some range. What happens if he's not hammering the faster intervals and has just a 10 mile tempo with hills in a given weeks. Is he running that in the 4:40s/50s? Probably.

You're telling me how it works?

True would be pretty big for a marathoner. 10k to half-marathon seems like his sweet spot.

He's an XC and roads guy.

evenemoreimpressiver wrote:

Doing it clean would be even more impressive!

Clean or not, anyone staying near peak level for 7 years straight is tough.

You didn't see Daniel Komen putting up 7 straight years of PR level times.

the concentrated mind wrote:

By next year's trials, there will be many more with the 13:13 standard.

Eric Jenkins has a 13:07 PB. From this year: Emmanuel Bor 13:10, Hilary Bor 13:14, Kirubel Erassa 13:17. Kipchirchir has a 13:18 he can probably improve based on his xc trials win.

Grant Fisher ran 7:42 indoor and will be training as a pro. I expect him to get 13:13. Andrew Hunter and Sean McGorty are very capable.

Including Chelimo, True and Mead, that's eleven guys and there could be more.

I doubt "standard vs rankings" will be a practical issue when it comes to the M5000m selection.

Nice optimism but I bet most of those guys won't run 13:13 in the next year.

Absolutely Spot On!

Wolf's Bane clearly doesn't have the experience to speak on this. Running world class track is very difficult and the ROI is extremely low unless a well thought out training plan is put in place for long range success. Very few middle distance runners have a long lasting lucrative career on the track. The main source of income is from the shoe sponsor (time incentives and bonuses making U.S. National teams of which the Olympic team is MOST IMPORTANT). You do make a bit of money with appearance fees in Europe but you can only run so many 3000's and 5000's per season. No doubt that Ben True's times are great but at some point he needs to move up in distance to maximize his running potential and earnings. Running anything slower than a 13:00 5000m just doesn't cut it any longer. It seems that Ben's goal is to make the 2020 Olympic 5000 team and once that is achieved he will move up to the longer races and yes he should be targeting the roads with an eye on the marathon. For any professional middle distance runner making the Olympic team is a MUST. Unfortunately just running fast times does not validate your running career, you have to make a national team which includes going to the BIG DANCE!