jesseriley wrote:
Proctor never even did that! No records submitted, even to Guinness.
Why would you submit records for a DNF?
jesseriley wrote:
Proctor never even did that! No records submitted, even to Guinness.
Why would you submit records for a DNF?
Excellent question. You submit records for a DNF for several reasons, for instance: credibility/basis for comparison in case there’s a second attempt; historical interest; it identifies BY NAME whoever kept/generated the records; but most of all it allows unlimited time to analyze the numbers, and time is very limited while the run is underway.
Since the numbers looked like pure fiction at the time, it’s not surprising that no one admitted to keeping the records.
Speaking of DNFs, why DNF at all? In five transcon races, I’ve had runners successfully walk to recover, even though they still had to beat a cutoff. Proctor had unlimited time.
The charity could make even more money with a longer, slower event. Was it honestly for charity? It appeared to be a lie.
A fast time often leaves ZERO time to organize fundraising (another rookie mistake).
Remember the MOST famous Trans Canada ?? attempt (Terry Fox) was a DNF. I don’t know why I have to keep reminding you of this, but it really detracts from your credibility & character.
jesseriley wrote:
Excellent question. You submit records for a DNF for several reasons, for instance: credibility/basis for comparison in case there’s a second attempt; historical interest; it identifies BY NAME whoever kept/generated the records; but most of all it allows unlimited time to analyze the numbers, and time is very limited while the run is underway.
Since the numbers looked like pure fiction at the time, it’s not surprising that no one admitted to keeping the records.
How do you know what type of records were kept? were you actually on his team and there? I'm sure his team were following the rules if it were indeed a record which it ultimately wasn't. Aside from poor strategy in his scheduling and maybe too fast some days, all his days were tracked by GPS and like everyone else here says, didn't point to cheating.
And you know his son has a rare disease and that's why he was doing it? to question that is pretty low. He did develop a serious back injury so just walking half of Canada wasn't a realistic scenario
So you don’t know what records were kept? Because you often commented on them during the run, anonymously of course.
We know they weren’t following the rules, as I said, because Guinness’ rules are incompatible with “Al Howie’s” record, because Proctor cut the course at Nanaimo.
By all means, produce the official record, vouched for (witnessed) & signed (“Tron” unacceptable).
“Everyone else here?” Only I am using my name. Please tell me who you are (or anyone is).
I do question why he quit, when his son & the charity generally could only benefit from continuing, slowly if necessary.
He’s apparently made a miraculous comeback from the “serious” injury, but back injuries are easy to fake, even if we had an independent examination (which we didn’t of course).
My 93 transcon starters, 48 finishers, certainly had some sore backs. It was never a crippling condition, however. Very unusual.
As stated, these conditions usually heal better & quicker by continuing at a slower pace, beyond the benefit to the charity by continuing.
I'm asking you about the records as you're the one making the accusations. Not everything has to be made public to the masses upon request. I'm sure they were tracking what they needed to so any record would be legit. Did you make everything public back in the day? how do we know Al's record was legit? because you wrote some notes on paper that may or may not be true? It would have been much easier to cheat back then than now with the prevalence of GPS/tracking.
What would be the point of finishing? It would have taken extra months and he has a family/job and would likely just make the injury worse (it wasn't just a sore back as you say). If you look at strava, I think he took 3 months off any activity to heal.
don't really care if you are using you're real name or not. Many of your posts are basically opinions vs facts and wouldn't make a difference if you know who i am. I'm not Dave or was not part of his team though. I know him well enough but that's about it..
Why this concern you? He has motivation based on his family needs. You have a need to compare it to an un documented , non gps run decades ago , with only hear say proof .
Ah, yes, “paper notes.” Like Terry Fox kept? Disrespect him all your life, it seems to be a talent of yours.
It’s absolutely easier to cheat with GPS. A GPS can’t be put in prison for fraud, and we still don’t have any actual humans claiming to generate these “numbers,” which “everyone” believes, despite the fact they don’t “officially” exist, because no one will sign for them! Pretty funny.
Almost as soon as GPS was invented & offered publicly, it was used to fake an around-the-world run by Robert Garside. You must not know this. What do you know?
As far as making accusations, you waited a long time to question Al Howie’s record: TWENTY-SEVEN years! Until Al was in the ground? Sure was lucky, wasn’t it, that I was a mere pup of 27 when we set out.
Not making accusations...I'm sure Al did run across Canada in that amount of time. I'm just arguing with your logic (or lack thereof) as you're dead wrong on this.
Since you are an expert, tell me how one would cheat with GPS? (hint, most people who do cheat are eventually caught). After GPS was around, people are caught more because it's harder to cheat...is that too hard to comprehend?
Now, pre-GPS, how would one cheat? easy as there is no proof aside from what you say/write down so essentially everyone just has to trust what you say (yeah, signing for them makes it very "official" doesn't it...)
So his Proctor’s family needed him to stop? But now they need him to start all over again next year?
Psychologically, this is an emotional dynamic that doesn’t need to be exposed to a grueling road trip, at a pace that breaks many bachelors.
I prudently recommend family first. There are other things in life beyond running records. I ran much faster, as a personal aside, when I had no social life.
Excellent question! There are actually quite a few ways to cheat with GPS.
First let’s remember that you only need to cheat for a few miles per day. A modest amateur like me has done 55 miles a day for over 1000 miles (in a loop race, which admittedly is much faster than open country). Of course I was very experienced & didn’t do anything stupid like eight-minute miles (Al averaged 13 min/mile).
There’s actually very little surveillance. Asher pulled the record from those security cameras & Robert Young still made it 3/4 of the way. You’ll face far more scrutiny in big towns & at the end, so cheat as much as possible at the start & quit early. Cancel any functions in, say, a Regina or a Winnipeg.
If you’re in the mountains and you don’t have line-of-sight signals, well, anything could happen. Mornings are an excellent time to cheat: bring a large crew; have someone set out on a bike or motorcycle or slow-moving vehicle (RY’s favorite). Or the crew can run with the GPS for awhile, keeps ‘em in shape! Bring several devices, using the alibi that the battery’s dead, etc.
You don’t have to cheat initially, you’re fresh! Pile on 87.81 miles that first day, use the commuter ferry to Vancouver, you’re way ahead! As you crash in the next few days, you’ll be safe in the mountains.
Never note the stopped times (I have repeatedly explained what these are to you), just let the clock run. Never submit results or even who is keeping them.
Every post you make , you are trying to justify why you are an awful person , thinking another run group needs your approval. No one needs to prove anything to you, and no one needs to explain there motives .
It’s true no one needs my approval.
But if they are interested in transcons, no one really has my experience.
I notice that, in between insults, you ask questions that you think are unanswerable, but for me it is familiar territory. Who knows, it may help someone, Proctor didn’t invent these type of runs.
jesseriley wrote:
It’s true no one needs my approval.
But if they are interested in transcons, no one really has my experience.
I notice that, in between insults, you ask questions that you think are unanswerable, but for me it is familiar territory. Who knows, it may help someone, Proctor didn’t invent these type of runs.
Again, just more vague accusations yet not a shred of proof. It’s why your accusations were ignored by most. You come across as a bit unhinged.
And no one is accusing Terry Fox or Al Howie of anything. You are the only one throwing around unfounded accusations.
Ok, those methods of cheating you could do with or without GPS....it's actually GPS surveillance that can help find those methods of cheating.
Are you saying 20 years ago without GPS, a runner couldn't cheat in those ways you state above?
of course they can and in fact it would be much easier to get away with it then as on top of GPS, there is now social media, tracking that makes these events more visible and more likely to find a cheater.
If you recall the Robert Young case, during an ancient time known as 2016, only Asher’s video was in evidence, but the scrutiny late in the run, which Proctor never faced, slowed him down.
He also refused to offer the results of his GPS, except to the sponsor (who refused to pay the contract). Subsequently the sponsor paid some tech professors to download everything & analyze the results, which “proved” he cheated, weeks after everyone else knew well enough.
So Proctor’s run is even LESS verified than the Great Robert Young.
Guess Proctor was paid in advance? We can certainly admire his business acumen.
jesseriley wrote:
If you recall the Robert Young case, during an ancient time known as 2016, only Asher’s video was in evidence, but the scrutiny late in the run, which Proctor never faced, slowed him down.
He also refused to offer the results of his GPS, except to the sponsor (who refused to pay the contract). Subsequently the sponsor paid some tech professors to download everything & analyze the results, which “proved” he cheated, weeks after everyone else knew well enough.
So Proctor’s run is even LESS verified than the Great Robert Young.
Guess Proctor was paid in advance? We can certainly admire his business acumen.
I'll try one more time...I think we can agree whether this year or 30 years ago, someone can try to cheat, correct?
- 30 years ago, there were no GPS, barely any video, social media, correct? now, I'm not accusing anyone but that makes things even easier to cheat.
-Currently, people can see flaws in GPS, videos as you mention, internet sleuths, etc... and a whole more scrutiny than in the past
now you think Dave cheated for whatever reason (still not one piece of evidence) and seem to have an agenda against him probably due to being part of the Al's record but it's time to just drop it. Ultimately, Dave didn't succeed and you're right, he probably made some noob mistakes, didn't plan appropriately, etc...but lets leave your accusations (guesses since no facts) out of it.
Lets see how he does in the upcoming 6 days in the dome and the Big Backyard race....maybe he'll prove to be "worthy" of your respect
shuffle off penguin wrote:
Why are all old ultra guys so weird?
Sounds about right ;-)
I don't know.
Al Howie was the real deal and Jesse Reiley was part of his run across Canada. Al Howie had a lot of other multiday accomplishments so we can assume his Trans Canada run was legit. Do we know this is accurate? Absolutely not. Transcon records only live with the reputation a runner has from runs in certified races. There will never be a way to absolutely proof that someone has done that.
That is also true for Pete Kostelnick's record.
I don't think Dave Proctor cheated and Jesse should stop these allegations unless he comes out with some evidence.
Dave Proctor made all kind of rookie mistakes and he thought he could easily beat Al Howie while visiting schools and places a long the way. As it turns out it's not that easy to run 60+ miles on the open road on a daily basis.
It will be interesting to see what Dave will do at the Dome.
jesseriley wrote:
If you recall the Robert Young case, during an ancient time known as 2016, only Asher’s video was in evidence, but the scrutiny late in the run, which Proctor never faced, slowed him down.
He also refused to offer the results of his GPS, except to the sponsor (who refused to pay the contract). Subsequently the sponsor paid some tech professors to download everything & analyze the results, which “proved” he cheated, weeks after everyone else knew well enough.
So Proctor’s run is even LESS verified than the Great Robert Young.
Guess Proctor was paid in advance? We can certainly admire his business acumen.
Why would Procter need to verify a run he didn't finish . You are triggered because Proctor doesn't know you or care what you think.
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