World Medical Association (WMA) urges its Members not to adminster testosterone-lowering drugs in females with DSDs

DSD seems pretty pathological to me.

An individual can have DSD without unfairly benefiting

I think this is a good question. And with all the dissecting of her anatomy and genetics, I don’t think there is info out there to answer questions not only about T levels but about the extent to which she benefits from them. You’d think if T levels were the only issue it would be more simple? It would be interesting to have an unbiased take on hormone therapy here from someone in the know.

One of the problems is that her condition is no longer referred to as a “condition,” or as a disability. Think of the wheelchair division in major marathons. Those guys and girls aren’t clamoring for a fair chance to compete with the runners. Gender is now seen as totally fluid, not determined by anything other than feeling and preference. Today, there’s nothing emotionally “wrong” with a genetically determined man preferring to be a woman who is bisexual. What’s happening on the high school level is coming down the pipe, and will no doubt be sanctioned by this world medical association: races which feature transgender men and women who don’t need to do a thing other than express sexual preference. This Caster issue is just the very tip of a huge iceberg that the IAAF won’t be able to do a thing about.

The IAAF tilted the T-data with their bogus limits, while 2014 data had an average mean of 48 IAAF (track & field) of 4.2, and 2019 Russian study had 11% of athletes above the 2.7 maximal reference value for females. Not to mention no-one has done study on African women T-values.

But IAAF chose to use dodgy concepts that "normal" was much smaller (0.08-1.68). Even their own data didn't add up in their commissioned paper, claiming 0.67 as a "mean" when all but 2 of the 21 events exceeded it. Actual accounting lists it at above 1. Also the IAAF procedure is not clearly resting serum, as the other studies, that get female average mean of 2.1 back in 2002 already.

Between November 1, 2002, and February 28, 2003, we found for 2057 women a mean (median) testosterone of 2.1 (1.6) nmol/L by AutoDelfia, similar to the values of 1.7 (1.4) nmol/L for 2180 different female samples assayed consecutively in our routine using the Orion Diagnostica RIA between November 1, 2001, and February 28, 2002

gahagand wrote:

I have to wonder wrote:

Do they have the same the same concerns about prescribing these drugs to a mentally ill man (gender dysphoria) who says he wants to be a female? Why is it accepted in that case but not the other?

Because Semenya doesn't want to take drugs in order to continue competing. You can claim she has a choice all you want, but she really doesn't. Her choices are thus: stop pursuing her greatest passion, or be forced take drugs that will forever alter her body and have health risks of their own. The only other choice available to her (continuing to compete without taking drugs) is no longer possible.

The obvious option your missing is to surgically remove her testes, but of course that mean the already difficult prospect of fathering children would be eliminated, but hey 99.99% of the women's category doesn't have that option either.

Against Ethical Principles wrote:

The World Medical Association (WMA) has urged...

And you are...?

Because Semenya doesn't want to take drugs in order to continue competing. You can claim she has a choice all you want, but she really doesn't. Her choices are thus: stop pursuing her greatest passion, or be forced take drugs that will forever alter her body and have health risks of their own. The only other choice available to her (continuing to compete without taking drugs) is no longer possible.

And she shouldn't take them, as they would totally change who she is and affect her marriage. But she can always compete in the open division which is what most of us XY, testosterone-soaked types do.

No, you are confusing gender with sex. The Semenya case is about sex not gender. The former is fluid, the latter is not (without taking loads of drugs). Basic stuff.

Proof the WMA is a political body, not a medical body.

Wow good stuff....

Its basically saying if the 800m XYs truly identified as women they would be embracing the treatments, be it gonadal removal or pharmological treatment, and these same doctors would be recommending it, in those cases.

I tend to agree and based on how the 800m XYs present themselves its hard to believe that some of the XYs wouldnt "identify" as male if it wasnt for winning womens sports events and the surrounding attention. At least thats my observation.

Hopefully the IAAF keeps the pedal down and continues to push for fair womens sport in even more meaningful ways.

Back in 2002 serum T was tested by immunoassay methodology. Now they use mass spectrometry. Women’s T levels are much higher under the former method than under the current method. Using mass spec, the average T for all women is 0.67, but it might be higher in a smaller sample such as athletes at the world championships.