What are the best ultras in the world? (Sponsored by HOKA ONE ONE)

And we talked to friend of LetsRun.com (and HOKA ultra marathoner) Sage Canaday this week on how we should frame this debate. Our talk was over an hour and we're going to post it at the end of this week's London Marathon preview podcast which will post tonight.

The over/under for how many times I totally exposed by ignorance of the ultra scene is 2.5.

All I know is, it's important to get a golden ticket.

Utmb

Yes, it was a great chat! Glad Wejo and Rojo are open to discuss (discus? ) this kind of "distance running" One thing that we didn't have time for was to talk about the whole "most beautiful ultras/courses"... They say "beauty is in the eye of the beholder", and I realize some people like the oceans/forest better than the high alpine mountains....some people like the deserts...some people even might like road/track surface ultras... there are ultras all over the world in all these kinds of places! The other big thing with ultras is why races become "bucket list"....does the scarcity of gaining a lottery entry create value? Does the history of a race create value? What about relative competition, prize money, and finisher density (i.e of the top 10 etc)?

S. Canaday wrote:

Yes, it was a great chat! Glad Wejo and Rojo are open to discuss (discus? ) this kind of "distance running"

One thing that we didn't have time for was to talk about the whole "most beautiful ultras/courses"...

They say "beauty is in the eye of the beholder", and I realize some people like the oceans/forest better than the high alpine mountains....some people like the deserts...some people even might like road/track surface ultras... there are ultras all over the world in all these kinds of places!

The other big thing with ultras is why races become "bucket list"....does the scarcity of gaining a lottery entry create value? Does the history of a race create value? What about relative competition, prize money, and finisher density (i.e of the top 10 etc)?

I agree with Sage regarding "bucket list" races or "most beautiful" courses. Some people like huge mountains, some people like rainforests, some people like deserts. The most beautiful courses probably aren't well-known at all, and the locals probably want to keep it that way.

Another question we should answer - Who is the best "any surface any distance" runner in the MUT world? Sage and others try hard to be versatile but it's not easy. Who does it best?

another good question would be:

What can we do to encourage elite road/track athletes to train seriously for MUT events?

Is it just about the money? I think that if Letsrun gave more attention to trailrunning/ultrarunning, then more competitive athletes would gain an interest in it.

Also to be included will hopefully be insight into which spectator experience is the best? European fans seem all in... where US fans appear to be less into the ultra race scene (as observed on this message board). What's the race that pros and Joe's both get crazy fans? What's the race that provides fans the most thrilling race?

Legit ultra fans, I'd love to hear opinions on this: is Yiannis Kouros by far the GOAT ultrarunner? Or is he not even #1?

He has all the records, and by large margins, but he didn't tend to do the type of races that the top guys do nowadays.

It's always nice to follow the elites but ultra running is about challenging yourself and finding your limits. It's about doing something different than a 5k every weekend or running a marathon through a large city.

What is the best ultra? It's the one you are running next!! It doesn't have to be the largest or the most well known or the one everybody wants to do.

Ultra races have been exploding the last few years which makes it easier to find and get into different races. What I like best is seeing new trails that I have never been on. It's a great way to do a trail without having to worry about the logistics of not getting lost and having support if you need it.

I consider myself a running boom runner as I started in 1979. I got into it just as road races were getting big and popping up in every town. The trail scene the last few years has that same feel to it though it is fleeting quickly as races fill up and bump up against limits set by who is handing out the permits. The smaller races you can still decide to run the week before and just show up and sign up the day of the race.

Just like road running, 90% of the participants are not there to try and win. My experience is that most of the runners doing trail races are also doing roadraces. They are also doing timed races which is a fantastic way to try out ultra running. What's nice about a timed race is that you always get credit for what you ran. Drop out 43 miles into a 50 mile race and the dnf is like you were never there.

While trail and ultra running is different than a typical road race, it's still just running (or hiking up the big hills) and is a great way to break up the monotony or boredom of doing the same type of racing year after year.

The disdain for ultra running on this forum- a disdain reserved almost exclusively for people who couldn't run up the steps from their basement- reminds me of the original disdain for MMA.

"They'll get knocked out in the first 15 seconds of the fight by a seasoned boxer."

Well, it didn't turn out that way.

The money in MMA is huge, and the pure boxers aren't cleaning up.

One last thing:

Go Sage. You are the reason I come on this site.

It used to be the great Ed Whitlock, so you are in rarefied company. :)

I wonder why most famous trail races are ultras. It seems to me that since trail running is generally slower than road running, trail races should be shorter than road races. The opposite seems to be the case.

For me personally, as a complete amateur who started running after college, I just don't see the point in running an ultra. The marathon is about the maximum distance I'd like to race. It's already beating me up quite a bit, so I wouldn't want to run any longer. Also, in terms of watching an event on TV, I wouldn't want to watch an event that's longer than a marathon.

Comrades Marathon, perfect length, alternates courses yearly to prevent staleness, competitive for everyone, “12 hours” to finish (after that you aren’t an official finisher, even if you are 50 meters off), storied history, and solid prize money. Can’t think of anything better...

My dream race is to run the Leadville 100. Actually, I’d love to learn to mountain bike and run and mountain bike the full leadwoman series! Sounds like you would have an epic season to make this series your goal.

My main race this year will be the Javelina 100k. I haven’t been yet but the scenery, relatively flat terrain in the desert and ability to have friends and crew see you several times at Jeadquarters seems like a real bonus since the course is looped.

If I had to come up with a list of my goal races it would be:

1. Western States (nothing need to say here, probably every ultrarunners’ goal).

2. UTMB (actually probably CCC, the 100K, if I’m honest). Views, spectators, cheese...

3. Vibram 100k in Hong Kong - just watched some footage Jamil Coury posted on YouTube and this race is in my bucket list. The combination of urban scenery and wild scenery seems awesome. Plus, dim sum afterwards.

4. Aforementioned Leadville 100. Ultrarunning history, tough elevation and awesome course, plus killer buckle.

5. Your local race. Nothing beats a good local race in some ways. The people you meat, the aid station conversations, it’s all great. There’s a race near me where the finishers award is two cans of tecate!

garden variety BQ hobby jogger wrote:

I wonder why most famous trail races are ultras. It seems to me that since trail running is generally slower than road running, trail races should be shorter than road races. The opposite seems to be the case.

For me personally, as a complete amateur who started running after college, I just don't see the point in running an ultra. The marathon is about the maximum distance I'd like to race. It's already beating me up quite a bit, so I wouldn't want to run any longer. Also, in terms of watching an event on TV, I wouldn't want to watch an event that's longer than a marathon.

A part of it is probably that trails are spaced out more than roads, so you are limited in your route choices, and sometimes going longer makes more sense. Plus, if you're out there to go play in the woods, why do 7 miles when you can do 37? You can get to places you wouldn't normally see.

LetsRun.com wrote:

*What are the most prestigious/most competitive ultramarathons in the world to win?

*What is your favorite ultra? What is the most beautiful ultra? Is there a bucket list of ultras that most amateurs should aspire to run?

*Who is the GOAT of ultra running?

*What are the hardest course/world records to break in ultra running?

Here is my background in order to evaluate my responses to the questions:

I completed over 100 ultras during the 1978 - 2015 timeframe. My PRs at standard ultra distances are 50K - 3:07, 50 miles - 5:35, 100K - 7:31 and 100 miles - 18:49. Twice I was on the U.S. national ultra team.

I don't feel competent to judge what is today the most prestigious/most competitive ultra to win. Back in the 1970s and 1980s, the most prestigious/most competitive ultra was London to Brighton. That race was, at the time, considered an unofficial world championship. Now there is the world 100K championship. There is also a 24 hour world championship. Some will insist that Western States is most important. Others, Comrades. I have run London to Brighton, the world 100K championship, Western States and Comrades. If I could have won any of the four, I would take Western States but only because that race is the most important in the U.S.

In my opinion, by far the best ultra (even if it is not the most prestigious to win) is Comrades. (I ran Comrades in 1996, shortly after apartheid ended, so Americans could finally run without adverse repercussions.) Comrades is to South Africa what the Superbowl is to the U.S. The entire country shuts down for the day to follow the race. There is nothing comparable in U.S. running. In 1996, Nelson Mandela, then president of South Africa, handed out the awards. Comrades was my best ever running experience in 50 years of competitive running.

Picking the male GOAT of ultra running would be as difficult as picking the greatest male runner of all time. How do you compare Bolt v. Bekele? The same problem exists in ultrarunning. How do you compare Don Ritchie v. Yannis Kouros?

The female GOAT of ultrarunning is Ann Trason. She set records at both the short and long ends of ultrarunning, dominated Western States for years and won Comrades. Most importantly, she was probably the only female ultrarunner which the top male ultrarunners feared. (Full disclosure - I have known Ann for decades.)

Those are my thoughts and I am sticking with them.

are you going to be covering things that are not "races" in the strict sense of the word?

for example, in Britain there is a long distance event called the Bob Graham Round. this is not a race where you all start at the same time, but an individual challenge. the object is to run a 66-mile route with 27,000ft of ascent taking in 42 of the highest peaks in the English Lake District. there is a club, called the Bob Graham 24-hour Club, whose membership is open to anyone completing the Bob Graham Round in less than 24 hours.

it was first run in 1932 by Bob Graham, a hotel keeper from Keswick in England, who completed the round in 23:39, a record not broken until 1960. the men's record is currently held by Killian Jornet at 12:52 (7 July 2018), and the ladies record is Jasmin Paris 15:24 (23 Apr 2016).

http://www.bobgrahamclub.org.uk/index.php?page=home

cheers.

*What are the most prestigious/most competitive ultramarathons in the world to win?

UTMB, Western States 100, Leadville 100, Hard Rock 100, Speed Goat

*What is your favorite ultra? What is the most beautiful ultra? Is there a bucket list of ultras that most amateurs should aspire to run?

Cayuga Trails 50, Javelina Jundred

*Who is the GOAT of ultra running?

No 'GOAT', cannot translate over many distances/terrains.

*What are the hardest course/world records to break in ultra running?

UTMB, Hard Rock 100.

wejo wrote:

And we talked to friend of LetsRun.com (and HOKA ultra marathoner) Sage Canaday this week on how we should frame this debate. Our talk was over an hour and we're going to post it at the end of this week's London Marathon preview podcast which will post tonight.

The over/under for how many times I totally exposed by ignorance of the ultra scene is 2.5.

Until you come back with "how we should frame this debate", it's a way too wide open ended subject. 'Best' ultra' in the world??? WTH does that even mean? The first race that came to mind and hasn't even been mentioned yet is Badwater. I think you guys should have kept this under wraps until you were ready to unveil it, not a week before.

Great responses and a lot of diversity so far! I'm impressed with the diversity we have already. Keep them coming! It is hard to "frame" these questions though. A lot of the podcast talk centered around which categories questions should we even talk about (and me correcting Rojo on how to pronounce "Comrades" :)) I also pointed out that to me (personally) "prestigious" meant "most competitive." Another point I brought up is that a lot of the most competitive and exciting "trail-mountain races" are actually not "ultras".....but 42km and less: Zegama, Sierre-Zinal, World Mountain (WMRA) Champs etc. The density of fans on the top of the mountain at Zegama is amazing! For the record though (and you guys will have to tune in to the podcast!) I did bring up names like Yiannis Kouros, Ann Trason and events like Barkleys/Badwater/Hardrock......as well as of course Comrades, UTMB, Western etc. As far as #AnySuraceAnyDistance goes....I think Max King has had the most impressive range so far (although he is almost a masters guy now?!...he has also been struggling a bit the past 8 months or so but was top 10 at Zegama last year): Correct me if i'm wrong, but i believe Max has done: 8:30 3km steeple, sub 14:00 5km, 1:02 half marathon, 2:14 marathon (top 12 at Olympic Trials), American Record and World Champion at 100km IAU, and World Mountain Running Champ at 12km....plus team USA XC member and was still top 10 at Zegama last year....he had a rough one at Western States (only did once) but was still 4th. He also was 8th at Comrades one year...

kmaclam wrote:

wejo wrote:

And we talked to friend of LetsRun.com (and HOKA ultra marathoner) Sage Canaday this week on how we should frame this debate. Our talk was over an hour and we're going to post it at the end of this week's London Marathon preview podcast which will post tonight.

The over/under for how many times I totally exposed by ignorance of the ultra scene is 2.5.

Until you come back with "how we should frame this debate", it's a way too wide open ended subject. 'Best' ultra' in the world??? WTH does that even mean? The first race that came to mind and hasn't even been mentioned yet is Badwater. I think you guys should have kept this under wraps until you were ready to unveil it, not a week before.