is my coach insane??? 20x200 workout

One of the worst parts of Lets Run message bard is kids getting on here and questioning their coach publicly. Even more sad when it looks like the coach knows what he/she is doing and its the kid that has no clue.

More focus on executing the training and less of whining and questioning your coach will do you wonders kid.

I remember a guy who for 3 months ran 20 200s 3 days each week and ran 31 for all 200s and then ran 3:56 indoor mile

Peter Snell training leading up to the 64 Olympics:

August

10th - 20 times 220 Av 27.45

11th - 3 miles - 14.47.6

12th - 660 - 1m27s 100yds 11s times 2

13th - 3mile - (50yd dashes)

14th - 6 times 220 - Av 26.5

15th - 20 times 440 Av 61

16th - 22 miles Waiatarua -2 hours 22 min

17th - 20 times 220 - Av 27.8

https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=5624118

Just in this seven day period, he did 20 x 220 twice, 20 x 400 once, one 3 mile time trials, one 22 mile long run over a hilly course, one workout of 50 yards on and off for three miles, one 600 yard time trial, 6 x 200 at about 800 pace once and a 22 mile long run over a hilly course at a pretty decent clip.

Hog wrote:

I remember a guy who for 3 months ran 20 200s 3 days each week and ran 31 for all 200s and then ran 3:56 indoor mile

Tom O'Hara?

I should have said. ---> Tom O'Hara.

Clarence Deast wrote:

Trust your coach. We did that workout once a week back in the day and it wasn’t even a primary workout. Rest got cut down from 1 min at start to 15 sec for last 5. 32 is about the right pace for your mile time.

We used to do it with the reducing rest too at York HS with Mr. Newton. There was no break between sets either, you just kept going into the next one. I think Mr. Newton got the workout from Seb Coe or maybe his dad Peter Coe back in the late 80s. Coe was living with him for a few weeks during the summer of 87(?) and training on our track (we had no idea who he was). I was totally nothing special at the mile, like 4:48, and I remember averaging 33-34, but it was a high adrenaline, hard workout as you tried not to slow down set to set.

And I should have clarified the training -- it was actually 20X200 1 day each week, 10X400 1 day each week and 5X800 1 day each week and all were run at the same speed -- 31/200, 62/400 and 2:04/800. I have used this approach (training 3 seconds per 400 slower than goal mile pace) and it definitely works very well.

Snell used to skip distance and ramp up the speed? I'm sure on occasion he did.

He also skipped the speed to run distance.

Lydiard was no idiot and neither was Snell who later gained a doctorate in Exercise Physiology.

One workout can ruin a season and people continue to do it every year.

Let me guess...you are a marathoner, right?

I’ve done 16x200 before at 28’-31’ but that was the meat of the workout,, sounds like you’re doing a 2 a day in one sitting which would set me back a few days to want to recover. Also the rest time is super important, it almost makes the whole dynamic of the workout change. We did 4 sets of 4 (each 200 in one set was roughly back to back, every 200 there was about 20-30 sec) and after each set of 4 we took a 7 minutes break.

Would 24 x 200m w/ 200m jog be equally as good?

4:06 mile is nuts btw.

Hey can you elaborate on a typical college training week that allowed you run a 4:06 mile?

There is no such thing as a standing rest.

The typical runner covers 50-60m in the 1' standing rest.

I have done 16x200 several times. I find that kids who are not near their potential in the 800 can run them at or faster than current 800 pace with 60s standing or walking rest.

It is the Delaware Kid who is perhaps not completely sane. I think this is a really good workout myself. It is similar to some I've done. However, the Kid questions the coach and believes he has more knowledge. Thing is, he probably does. Seems to have it together running-wise. So questioning some clown your school district hired isn't the red flag for me. My high school track coach was one of the football coaches. There to babysit his football guys in the off-season. Total waste of time listening to that guy.

Here's where I think our hero has gone wrong. He agreed to be coached by this guy. That was the mistake. Eliminate that decision: eliminate every coaching problem and complaint. Issue solved, period. That football coach? I did not agree to be coached by him. Never even met.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

One of Ron Clarke's favorite workouts was 20 laps of sprinting the straightaways and jogging the turns. Sounds pretty similar.

Not similar.

Actually, ummmm.... wrote:

It is the Delaware Kid who is perhaps not completely sane. I think this is a really good workout myself. It is similar to some I've done. However, the Kid questions the coach and believes he has more knowledge. Thing is, he probably does. Seems to have it together running-wise. So questioning some clown your school district hired isn't the red flag for me. My high school track coach was one of the football coaches. There to babysit his football guys in the off-season. Total waste of time listening to that guy.

Here's where I think our hero has gone wrong. He agreed to be coached by this guy. That was the mistake. Eliminate that decision: eliminate every coaching problem and complaint. Issue solved, period. That football coach? I did not agree to be coached by him. Never even met.

most people will have a tough time navigating through life with this kind of attitude.

Obviously, it's okay to ask questions to the right people. But sometimes you just need to suck it up and do what you're asked. Intuitive people will have a natural sense of when and when not to push those boundaries.

Hold your question until our 5x18 mile workout.

In Lasse Virens book. "Lasse Viren: Olympic Champion" he spoke of workout he would do that i followed for many years.

He would do 20 x 200 with the recovery as short as the run itself. He averaged an amazing 27.8 (if i remember correctly) with his last one in 25.8. This was right before his 2 mile WR of 8:16.

The workout is all about the recovery time. Do not allow yourself more time.

In Lasse Virens book. "Lasse Viren: Olympic Champion" he spoke of workout he would do that i followed for many years.

He would do 20 x 200 with the recovery as short as the run itself. He averaged an amazing 27.8 (if i remember correctly) with his last one in 25.8. This was right before his 2 mile WR of 8:16.

The workout is all about the recovery time. Do not allow yourself more time.