Ultra discussion: thoughts on the Georgia Death Race controversy?

I can see two arguments, and both are valid.

First, a course should never have "questionable" marking. If there is any doubt by the people doing the flagging, then you triple check, triple mark (flag) and make it abundantly clear which way to go.

If one person complains out of (150?) in a trail race, then it's probably just that person being dumb. If its the top 15 people all saying it's questionable, then you have an issue as an RD. You are, as the RD, ultimately responsible for the markings/flaggings on the course. You appointed people to do it...they didn't flag it properly. You can't penalize the runners for this.

At the same time, it is ultimately on the runners to know the course and listen in the pre-race meeting to any directions or changes.

To add a 60 minute time penalty for a half mile and barely any climb is absurd. Maybe add 15 minutes, but an hour? Get out of here with that crap. I know the RD and he really is a good guy and means well, but that was a bit harsh. Again though, I was NOT there at the race, so I don't know how "questionable" the flagging was. Why did only the first 15 runners have issues?

MeHereYouWhere?! wrote:

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To add a 60 minute time penalty for a half mile and barely any climb is absurd. Maybe add 15 minutes, but an hour? Get out of here with that crap. I know the RD and he really is a good guy and means well, but that was a bit harsh. Again though, I was NOT there at the race, so I don't know how "questionable" the flagging was. Why did only the first 15 runners have issues?

Once third place male rolled into the Skeenah aid station, he alerted the RD of the flagging issue and volunteers were sent to fix it immediately, so essentially it was fixed by the time mid to back of the packers got there.

However, for the front of the pack folks, the damage was already done unfortunately.

Pick a side you waffler.

The runners screwed up. They should know the course. They could have back tracked and avoided the penalty, but they made their choice. They should have been DQd.

Rantherace1 wrote:

Once third place male rolled into the Skeenah aid station, he alerted the RD of the flagging issue and volunteers were sent to fix it immediately, so essentially it was fixed by the time mid to back of the packers got there.

However, for the front of the pack folks, the damage was already done unfortunately.

Thank you for answering my question. As a person who ran the race, do you feel like the penalty was too harsh?

As I said, I see both sides of it. I really do. It's a tough call as to whether to penalize or not and if you do, what is the penalty?

MeHereYouWhere?! wrote:

Rantherace1 wrote:

Once third place male rolled into the Skeenah aid station, he alerted the RD of the flagging issue and volunteers were sent to fix it immediately, so essentially it was fixed by the time mid to back of the packers got there.

However, for the front of the pack folks, the damage was already done unfortunately.

Thank you for answering my question. As a person who ran the race, do you feel like the penalty was too harsh?

As I said, I see both sides of it. I really do. It's a tough call as to whether to penalize or not and if you do, what is the penalty?

I tend to agree with your earlier analysis above that the penalty was overly harsh.

The wrong route maybe shaved off 5-15 minutes at most (running an extra 0.5 miles, but cutting off 300-400ft of gain). Seems very heavy handed.

Me here you IHOP wrote:

Pick a side you waffler.

The runners screwed up. They should know the course. They could have back tracked and avoided the penalty, but they made their choice. They should have been DQd.

The runners were not informed that they went off course

Seems like a huge RD F up! Race should lose its golden ticket status. It is a mess. Winners didn’t run the course and if DQd you drop back to mid packers getting golden tickets.

I am not a fan of this RD. He is immature and doesn’t take responsibility for issues at his races. His races are nearly as great, and he is not nearly as good of an RD as he thinks and says he is. If a couple people go off course then it’s almost always those runners fault, but when you have 40% of the runners (according to the RD in the podcast) go off course in the same place then that is on the RD. This tells me that the trail was not clearly and properly marked in that area. Also, if they only cut off a half mile, at most, then adding on hour to their finish time is ridiculous. Also, was this hour time added to every runner who went off course there? Or just the runners at the front?

There is no way that everybody can be expected to know the course at all times when this is not an orienteering event without markings. In a race with race markings you should be able to follow the race markings.

If 15 runners go wrong at almost the same time there was something wrong with the markings.

My question would be why didn't latter runners were not wrong? Was that mistake corrected?

15 minutes penalty should be plenty.

Forest Gump here wrote:

There is no way that everybody can be expected to know the course at all times when this is not an orienteering event without markings. In a race with race markings you should be able to follow the race markings.

If 15 runners go wrong at almost the same time there was something wrong with the markings.

My question would be why didn't latter runners were not wrong? Was that mistake corrected?

15 minutes penalty should be plenty.

Commenter above who ran the race said it was pointed out to the RD at some point and someone went out there and corrected it.

MeHereYouWhere?! wrote:

Forest Gump here wrote:

There is no way that everybody can be expected to know the course at all times when this is not an orienteering event without markings. In a race with race markings you should be able to follow the race markings.

If 15 runners go wrong at almost the same time there was something wrong with the markings.

My question would be why didn't latter runners were not wrong? Was that mistake corrected?

15 minutes penalty should be plenty.

Commenter above who ran the race said it was pointed out to the RD at some point and someone went out there and corrected it.

It might have been corrected at some point, but according to the RD himself on the podcast interview at least 40% of the runners went off course there.

Just listened to an Ultra podcast with this RD.

Sounds like a dik to me.

Wasn’t Xavier T DQ’d from Hardrock for getting water at a non aide station?

Sounds like he RD screwed up if that many people went off course.

Anyways, keep the rules consistent , yeah??

Get back on the right course or else you are disqualified. Adding an arbitrary time? Lame. Just a cop out to protect your RD image and make sure people keep coming to your races. Are all RDs asses??

I’m yet to meet one that doesn’t have this attitude that they have such a hard and self righteous profession. Get over yourself. You set up flags and have volunteers put out crap candy and soda. Real hard...

They call themselves RunBumTours

https://www.runbumtours.com/about

"And that's why you're just a podcast host, and I am an RD.." LOLLL...

How many of you id1ots were in the URP comments section?

The RD made a call that was his to make. The top runners affected by it were satisfied. Craig Thornley, WS100's RD, was satisfied. Those are the people whose opinion matters in all this.

You don't like it? Don't run his races.

The RD marked the trail properly. Afterwards, the Forest Service marked an adjacent trail in a way that was confusing to some runners. Sh1t happens. It was fixed once it was detected.

Kudos to Sean for not DQing those runners. What happened at Hardrock with Thevenard was embarrasing, but nobody cares about Hardrock anyway.

How can the forest service come in between the race course marking and the actual race? Are they not checking segments of the trail a few days before the race for marking and safety?

Mizuno fanboy wrote:

How many of you id1ots were in the URP comments section?

The RD made a call that was his to make. The top runners affected by it were satisfied. Craig Thornley, WS100's RD, was satisfied. Those are the people whose opinion matters in all this.

You don't like it? Don't run his races.

The RD marked the trail properly. Afterwards, the Forest Service marked an adjacent trail in a way that was confusing to some runners. Sh1t happens. It was fixed once it was detected.

Kudos to Sean for not DQing those runners. What happened at Hardrock with Thevenard was embarrasing, but nobody cares about Hardrock anyway.

No, the Forest Service did not change any course markings. It was a confusing section because the Forest Service built a new trail recently. Given that there was a new trail there, and it was confusing, it was the RD’s responsibility to ensure it was clearly marked. A simple “wrong way” sign like many trail races use could’ve been put at the new trail to make it clear to the runners not to run that way. As someone else said, this RD is a jerk and blames everyone but himself when issues occur at this races. It’s only his word that runners were satisfied and that the WS100 RD agreed with his desicion.

Except it did reshuffle the women’s race 16 miles in. Pretty bold to say everyone is satisfied.

https://mtnrnrmarin.wordpress.com/2019/03/31/georgia-death-race

The URP host confirmed Thornley was satisfied with the outcome.