All American Casey Clinger steps away from college to serve as a missionary - His Story

My intial reaction upon hearing this was of bewilderment. Why would such a talented kid throw everything he had been working towards for 2 years?

After reading his story I saw why, seems like a great kid, hope we see some fireworks from him when he returns!

Religion is nonsense, and I have a hard time saying kudos to a person who is doing other-wise good while trying to convince the world that a false god exists.

I can say kudos for his virtue, and he does sound virtuous. But he is sorely misguided.

killermike wrote:

Religion is nonsense, and I have a hard time saying kudos to a person who is doing other-wise good while trying to convince the world that a false god exists.

I can say kudos for his virtue, and he does sound virtuous. But he is sorely misguided.

Even if you disagree with his stance on religion, all of his actions are doing good for himself and those around him. I don't see what issue you take with him believing in God and teaching others about God when the outcome is entirely positive.

I am sure he was very disappointed he ended up in Japan -when he really wanted to be in Orlando

Killer Mike never ceases to amaze. I pray for you to come to know Jesus Christ.

alshaw wrote:

killermike wrote:

Religion is nonsense, and I have a hard time saying kudos to a person who is doing other-wise good while trying to convince the world that a false god exists.

I can say kudos for his virtue, and he does sound virtuous. But he is sorely misguided.

Even if you disagree with his stance on religion, all of his actions are doing good for himself and those around him. I don't see what issue you take with him believing in God and teaching others about God when the outcome is entirely positive.

I doubt anybody has a problem with him believing in god.

However, the mormon church doesn't stop at worshipping, they try to impose their views onto politics. That is where people have an issue. Many of the policies they push are a negative influence on the world and create fear and hatred. For example, their massive presence in the prop 8 vote in California, they funded a disturbing spread of false information to try to drum up fear of gays taking over schools.

To be fair, Mormonism isnt the only religion doing this, they're just the most active. This is why I no longer support the catholic church, despite considering myself catholic.

A Mormon mission is about one thing: spreading Mormonism. All the rest of what they claim it is for is as a sales pitch. Spreading a religion isnt a virtue. If he truly felt compelled to make positive changes in the world, there are much better ways to spend your time with countless non profits desperate for help. where is the mormon church there?

In connection with Casey Clinger's possible running career after his mission consider the following list of US olympians who served LDS missions (Olympic years, event and region of service indicated):

Henry Marsh (1976, 1984, 1988), steeplechase. Brazil.

Doug Padilla (1984, 1988), middle distance. El Salvador.

Ed Eyestone (1988, 1992), marathon. Spain.

Jason Pyrah (1996, 2000), 1500. Bolivia

Grant Robison (2004), 1500. South Africa.

Josh McAdams (2008), steeplechase, Thailand.

Jared Ward (2016), marathon, Pennsylvania.

There has been at least one returned LDS missionary on every US mens mid-d/d Olympic team since 1976 except in 2012. (In 2012 Miles Batty(1500) and Josh McAdams (st) both made the finals in their events at the Olympic Trials but did not make the team.) This is a history that certainly supports at least the possibility of a distinguished post-mission running career.

alshaw wrote:

killermike wrote:

Religion is nonsense, and I have a hard time saying kudos to a person who is doing other-wise good while trying to convince the world that a false god exists.

I can say kudos for his virtue, and he does sound virtuous. But he is sorely misguided.

Even if you disagree with his stance on religion, all of his actions are doing good for himself and those around him. I don't see what issue you take with him believing in God and teaching others about God when the outcome is entirely positive.

The bolded outcome is not entirely positive. In fact, it is quite negative.

Honestly? wrote:

Killer Mike never ceases to amaze. I pray for you to come to know Jesus Christ.

I was a Christian for 15 years. I almost went to seminary. I wasn't a nominal Christian. However, the arguments against a personal god are overwhelming.

All Mormons have to go on a 2 year mission. If you every fly through Salt Lake, you will see dozens of college age kids having tearful goodbyes with family as they are sent off to far flung destinations for their mission.

And getting to do your mission in Sapporo, Japan is like getting to do missionary work in Denver, CO but with even better powder skiing.

A lot of Mormon missionaries are sent far and wide to very remote places with inadequate health care and food and are often in danger. I am not sure why anyone would be making a big story about a very soft missionary experience.

The experience and extensive exposure to Japanese will probably be super beneficial to this kid later in life.

killermike wrote:

Honestly? wrote:

Killer Mike never ceases to amaze. I pray for you to come to know Jesus Christ.

I was a Christian for 15 years. I almost went to seminary. I wasn't a nominal Christian. However, the arguments against a personal god are overwhelming.

I've read pretty much every argument against and for God and have concluded that really the only thing it boils down to in the Christian faith is whether or not Jesus rose from the dead. That is the only thing that matters and I believe there is too much evidence that he did that it can't be ignored.

Trackgrandpa wrote:

In connection with Casey Clinger's possible running career after his mission consider the following list of US olympians who served LDS missions (Olympic years, event and region of service indicated):

Henry Marsh (1976, 1984, 1988), steeplechase. Brazil.

Doug Padilla (1984, 1988), middle distance. El Salvador.

Ed Eyestone (1988, 1992), marathon. Spain.

Jason Pyrah (1996, 2000), 1500. Bolivia

Grant Robison (2004), 1500. South Africa.

Josh McAdams (2008), steeplechase, Thailand.

Jared Ward (2016), marathon, Pennsylvania.

There has been at least one returned LDS missionary on every US mens mid-d/d Olympic team since 1976 except in 2012. (In 2012 Miles Batty(1500) and Josh McAdams (st) both made the finals in their events at the Olympic Trials but did not make the team.) This is a history that certainly supports at least the possibility of a distinguished post-mission running career.

Don’t forget miles batty came back after being pretty much an unknown, to dominating the 1500 and breaking the collegiate record in the mile.

well actually wrote:

I've read pretty much every argument against and for God and have concluded that really the only thing it boils down to in the Christian faith is whether or not Jesus rose from the dead. That is the only thing that matters and I believe there is too much evidence that he did that it can't be ignored.

Reading arguments doesn't necessarily mean you have correctly analyzed arguments. The strongest consideration, either way, is the evidentiary problem of evil. A three-trait (omniscient, omnibenevolent, omnipotent) being must, by his very nature, create the best world possible. That means the existence of any extra evil is an indication no such god exists. There is clearly some evil in this world that could have been removed without removing any good.

killermike wrote:

There is clearly some evil in this world that could have been removed without removing any good.

I'm intrigued, because it's not that clear to me, can you share some examples and or instances where you feel this is clearly the case?

nofacetimber wrote:

killermike wrote:

There is clearly some evil in this world that could have been removed without removing any good.

I'm intrigued, because it's not that clear to me, can you share some examples and or instances where you feel this is clearly the case?

Sure. Thanks for the interest in this sort of thing....as you can see, I like talking about it.

I think there are nearly limitless examples of gratuitous suffering. For example, animals were on the scene for millions of years before humans, and in many cases they suffered greatly from starvation, predation, etc. God created a situation where creatures across the planet died painful deaths when he could have done otherwise. This was clearly not for mankind's benefit, or to pull man "closer to god" because we didn't even exist yet. In a nutshell, why aren't all animals vegan?

The question is whether needless suffering is evil. I hold that it clearly is. If I told you that I tortured puppies just for fun, you would rightly say that was a terrible thing to do. Even if I was otherwise the best human on the planet, you would hold that I would be an even better person if I didn't torture puppies. In order to say that the massive suffering in the animal kingdom (which is just one example) isn't an example of evil, you would have to say that a world in which those animals didn't suffer wouldn't be better. That seems wrong on its face.

Wild animal suffering is just one example. All we really need is one single instance where god could have removed suffering without also removing some amount of good from the world. In a world filled with suffering, that's not too hard. Remember, god supposedly created this world, and because he's omniscient, he knew exactly what he was creating. Pointing to "that's just how the world is" doesn't solve the problem. By his very nature, god is required to have created the best possible world.

FWIW, various Christian philosophers have responded to this problem. Alvin Plantinga did a lot of work on the free will solution, but this problem extends far beyond evil created by freely-acting humans (and there are other issues with his response that I'd love to chat about). William Lane Craig, who is one of the best debaters on either side on these topics, has proposed the ridiculous idea that animals aren't actually conscious and don't experience pain in a relevant way.

All Mormons have to go on a 2 year mission. NO THEY DON'T!

Are you referring to charitable contributions to those in need? Maybe I misunderstood this last part, but if your concern is that the Church of Jesus Christ doesn't make charitable contributions, or acts of welfare (not contingent upon an individual joining the religion) then I suggest you turn on the news next time there's a major hurricane in the south.

killermike wrote:

Sure. Thanks for the interest in this sort of thing....as you can see, I like talking about it.

Haha yeah, I know this is a forum about running so I don't mean to facilitate too much dialogue off topic.

But thank you,

I can tell you have put some thought and research into it. Thanks for bringing up both sides as well.

I won't share my thoughts on your points at this juncture because firstly, I find myself more so on the other side but am not looking for a heated debate, just interested in intellectual discussion/debate on the matter. And secondly they deserve some careful consideration which I can't give during brief breaks at work.

You've definitely given me some food for thought.