When checking my bib number I happened to notice that my start is at 10:02 AM, two minutes after the start of the men's elite race. This is sort of a shocking development to me and isn't getting the coverage it should be getting. While this will have little impact on me, it could have a huge impact on some sub-elites. This means that only people accepted into the elite field (which is, by my understanding, the hardest elite field in the country to gain entrance to) are eligible for prizes. There are a number of instances over the last 19 years of men and women finishing in the money out of Corral 1, it's not just a 2018 phenomenon. It will probably have a bigger impact on masters racers who are far more likely to finish in the money out of Corral 1. So this decision has the following impacts:
-Restricts prize money to elites only (including masters prize money)
-Means a 2:20 marathoner, who is unlikely to be in the elite field, probably has no one to run with until they catch stragglers who fall off the elite pack
-Means masters racers who want a shot at prize money and get accepted into the masters elite, have no one to run with until they get caught by guys who started 2 minutes behind them
Here is the start timeline: https://www.baa.org/races/boston-marathon/enter/participant-basics
Last night I spoke about this with a sub-elite who has earned money out of Corral 1 and we discussed why this is happening and what better alternatives exist. We both think this is happening because of some accusations of sexism following last year. When Jessica Chichester finished 6th out of Wave 1, some said it was sexist that she wasn't eligible for prize money but that men who ran out of Wave 1 were. The BAA ended up paying her and two other women who ran out of Wave 1, as well as the three Corral 1 men who finished top 15. Maybe this is a response to that, as they clearly note that you have to be in the elite start to get prize money, so this way men and women are treated equally.
I understand the reasoning:
1) Separate women's start is important for highlighting their race (although slightly less important on a non record eligible course)
2) Treat the women and men equally through equal prize money, equal field sizes eligible for prize money, and an equal race opportunity
3) Charter buses and staging in the church can only accommodate so many elites
An alternative though, is instead of removing opportunities for sub-elite and masters men, add a sub-elite women's field that starts immediately behind the elite women at 9:32. Looking at entries, there are 8 women in Corral 1 and an additional 130 in the first 4 corrals (sub 2:57:37 according to current bib number thread). The BAA could offer these 138 women, a choice "race with the men and have an opportunity to run fast but forgo any prize money" OR "still take a school bus to Hopkinton, wait in the AV, but have the chance to start in a separated corral, 10 feet behind elite women and have a shot at prize money." This is giving them the oppportunity men in Corral 1 have had for years. Everyone must choose one or the other. Most women between 2:45 and 2:57 would probably choose to race with the men and chase an OTQ, and they would know they waived their right to prize money.
Boston Separates Elite Men's Start from Wave 1 Corral 1 by two minutes
Report Thread
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Is this really a thing? Does that mean they limit BAA elite field to sub 2:19 guys only now?
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Fire up the Waaambulance.
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That sucks, I was planning on running it next year and getting my 15 minutes of fame by running ahead of the elites for a mile or two.
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Sounds like some serious Hobby jogger problems
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no longer aware of congestion levels at the start
Does it take two minutes for the elite wave to clear the start? -
last time I at the start was 1978 wrote:
no longer aware of congestion levels at the start
Does it take two minutes for the elite wave to clear the start?
yea it's like a solid 2000 people in elite start, usually gets rolling by about 3/4 mile out from the start, a lot of walking/bumping into eachother for the first several hundred yards/etc. lots of selfie sticks too -
suprised wrote:
Is this really a thing? Does that mean they limit BAA elite field to sub 2:19 guys only now?
This is no good. I'm not elite but have been proud to beat some runners from the elite field. Previously any male was eligible for prize money based on order of finish, now you have to be in the elite field. It does seem as if they caved to those calling them sexist last year and now are now excluding all but the elite field from the race. -
Thank you BAA.
I hate some 2:25 hobby jogger trying to show his mom how good he is by running with the leaders for 2 miles. That day is over. -
Even though I'm way too slow to have a shot at price money, I understand that this sucks. One can only speculate as for what the reasons are.
Maybe the Pulitzer prize worthy journalists of letsrun can ask the BAA to find out? -
Blame the Dashing Whippets for this development. They were key in making that story go viral. They knew the rules.
This is really a bad development. -
proud hobby jogger wrote:
Even though I'm way too slow to have a shot at price money, I understand that this sucks. One can only speculate as for what the reasons are.
Maybe the Pulitzer prize worthy journalists of letsrun can ask the BAA to find out?
Why aren't they all over this? They need to get on it. This is as big as the Olympic trials fiasco. -
Races like this are a joke and everything that's going wrong with the sport. Looks to me like the elites are afraid to get beat. Kind of like the big conferences in college football changing the rules every time a smaller school finds a way to possibly get in the playoff.
I ran a 5k a few years ago that divided the "elite" field and ran them a half hour before us slowpokes so we could have the honor of cheering them on while doing our warmup. I never went back. -
Opinionated Guy wrote:
Blame the Dashing Whippets for this development. They were key in making that story go viral. They knew the rules.
This is really a bad development.
What story? -
The only problem I see with this is that gun time is used for OTQ.
From the USATF Qualifying Standards page:
"“Gun” time is the only acceptable method of timing. Chip/net times cannot be used for qualifying. Consideration may be given to “chip/tag” times for competitors with “gun” times extremely close to the above qualifying standards."
If the 10:02 start is not considered a gun start, anyone on the fringe is out. -
wejo wrote:
Opinionated Guy wrote:
Blame the Dashing Whippets for this development. They were key in making that story go viral. They knew the rules.
This is really a bad development.
What story?
That one of their runners, Jessica Chinchester, finished with a chip time from the mass start that was in the money for the women's overall field. Obviously she had much easier conditions running in packs of men vs. being all alone in the elite women's start, but Dashing Whippets made a large public stink about how it was sexist that if a man finished among the top 10 from the amateur start they'd receive prize money, but a woman can't do that. This totally discounts the fact that the elite women's separate start exists to highlight women's racing and that starting with the masses is a completely different race, especially in those weather conditions, but that is far too nuanced for the mass media who picked up on it. BAA ended up also awarding Chinchester matching prize money to what her place was slotted to receive if she'd started with the elites, but I'm sure they want to avoid any calls of sexism going forward. -
I don't get the Masters argument. I'm a masters who qualifies for the elite field so why don't I have people to run with...I run with the other elites.
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Shane33 wrote:
The only problem I see with this is that gun time is used for OTQ.
From the USATF Qualifying Standards page:
"“Gun” time is the only acceptable method of timing. Chip/net times cannot be used for qualifying. Consideration may be given to “chip/tag” times for competitors with “gun” times extremely close to the above qualifying standards."
If the 10:02 start is not considered a gun start, anyone on the fringe is out.
Agree that this is the biggest issue. Does anyone know if, for OTQ purposes, the gun time for the W1/C1 folks will eb the elite gun time, or will it be the gun time for the masses?
As a guy who was on the fringe of maybe making some masters money (I think I was 13th, with top 10 being paid), I will say that this kind of screws that up too, but that results in a relatively small number of people. It does raise some interesting issues though. I think I was seeded 17th among masters runners the year I ran it. Some of those guys ahead of me had qualifying times from some of the downhill marathons as compared to my time from the Chicago marathon, including one of the guys that ended up in the elite field. So you may see more and more of that from the masters crowd over time.
I do think this is going to be an interesting year at Boston either way. When I ran with a 2:30:5x seed time in 2017, I had bib 148. My friend got a bib assignment just a couple of spots lower than that with a 2:26xx seed time. Should be a stacked year -
Speaking of waves, my pr from 2 years ago, is 2:35 which would have put me in Wave 1. Unfortunately, my 2:56 blowup last year has me back in wave 4. I understand that it is a later start time, but assuming fitness is there, will a PR be feasible and will there be people to run with or will it be just picking people off the entire time? Thanks.
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ride the wavve wrote:
Speaking of waves, my pr from 2 years ago, is 2:35 which would have put me in Wave 1. Unfortunately, my 2:56 blowup last year has me back in wave 4. I understand that it is a later start time, but assuming fitness is there, will a PR be feasible and will there be people to run with or will it be just picking people off the entire time? Thanks.
I think you're confusing waves and corrals. 2:56 should be wave 1 corral 4. So start time is not that much later. But presumably you'll be way faster than those around and in front of you.
