How many HS boys broke 9 minutes for 3,200m in 1997 in US

You are talking about

I was a CA HSer in the 1990s. I attended Arcadia as a fan in 1998 and an athlete in 1999.

I remember one year Adam Tenforde was trying to break 9:00. He was way ahead of everyone else in the Arcadia field.

The next year Josh Rohatinsky was trying to break 9:00, again he was way ahead of the field. I can't remember if either of them actually did it.

When Augie Escobar and Josh Spiker broke 9 it was a BIG deal.

I think it truly was all down to the shitty low mileage training theories of the time. I think Coe and his father tricked the world that they were running 30mpw, and the world (at least Euros/US) fell for it for 20 years.

As a poster above mentioned, almost every program was doing low miles, so only true freak specimens could break 9:00 or 4:10.

In ultra-competitive southern california, it was considered noteworthy, even foolhardy, to be running a lot. In San Diego, I remember hearing that local stud Matt McInvale was "running alot" with the implication being that runners like him would burn out and never improve. What we've learned since is that low mileage and high intensity guys are just as likely (if not more likely) to burn out and never improve.

Then along came Ritz and Hall in 2000/01, both running over 80mpw and doing great for a long time.

My mid 1990s HS coach was CLUELESS. We ran some 400s as fast as we could on tuesday. We ran 4x800 or 3x mile as fast as we could on thursday. Easy on M, W, F. That was it! Weekends on your own! No tempo/threshold. No long runs. Good lord.

With the internet, there is now no excuse. Any coach who gives a damn should be able to do well these days.

Seeker wrote:

I don't have a lifetime of them but have them from early 1971 through 2008. They are not bound but are in bankers boxes.

I have strong sentimental ties to them, especially those from the 1970's, but I stopped subscribing a few years ago and, at this point, my wife would love to get them out of our basement.

If you are interested in getting rid of some or all, please let me know and I’ll post my email to arrange.

Thanks[/quote]

If Rojo isn't interested, I'd still be open to seeing if we can work something out. I'm kimbellard @ gmail.com

running grandad wrote:

My son graduated HS in 1998 with a 9:35 2-mile PR. That was fast enough to get him recruited by a healthy number of colleges at that time. It truly was the era of the low-mileage philosophy of training. I would estimate his training progression through HS was about 35mpw as a Freshman, 40-45 mpw as a Soph, 45-50 mpw as a Junior, and 55-60 mpw his senior year.

That's actually a decent moderate mile progression. I was a club coach and worked with a HS program for a number of years and that's pretty close to what I was saying was reasonable. The head coach threw a fit about the "High Volume!" and that the kids would burn out on 55-60 miles a week as seniors. What happened is that they flattened out and didn't improve as seniors, one actually ran 15 sec/slower because instead of 50 mpw he was doing 35.

Then he goes to college and they have him trying 100 mile weeks middle of his freshman year.

1955 wrote:

Seeker wrote:

I don't have a lifetime of them but have them from early 1971 through 2008. They are not bound but are in bankers boxes.

I have strong sentimental ties to them, especially those from the 1970's, but I stopped subscribing a few years ago and, at this point, my wife would love to get them out of our basement.

If you are interested in getting rid of some or all, please let me know and I’ll post my email to arrange.

Thanks

If Rojo isn't interested, I'd still be open to seeing if we can work something out. I'm kimbellard @ gmail.com[/quote]

Thanks. I sent you an email from jamhawk

I got lucky as well to run in high school from 1997-2001. PRs of 52 open/50 point relay, 1:24, 1:54, 2:35, 4:24, and 16:10 on a pancake flat XC course for 5k. All done on low mileage and an abundance of speedwork. Got full tuition paid for and improved in college (1:53 open/1:50 relay, 2:29, 3:50 for 1500, 26:22 for 8k), but between injuries and lack of focus, I never got to where I probably could have. Can't imagine I'd get a scholarship anywhere other than a low-level program today.

rojo wrote:

I was trying to find some lists from the 1990s the other day. I'm pretty sure Track and Field News used to publish list in the back of their magazines, but it doesn't look like they've archived them online.

Really? Sometimes I really wonder about you, Rojo. I've posted this information on a few threads here, and I believe I've even sent the information to either you or wejo within the last year or two. (from Jack Shepards high school annuals)

You dont have to purchase T&FN. back issues. There are plenty of kind souls out there who will send their entire collections for free. Twice I've had people donate their libraries to me, figuring I'd be a safe repository.

Re-reading that thread was a refreshing breath of air. The good old days when letsrun actually talked about running, and participated on threads without the trolls vandalizing and destroying everything.

Halcyon Days wrote:

Re-reading that thread was a refreshing breath of air. The good old days when letsrun actually talked about running, and participated on threads without the trolls vandalizing and destroying everything.

I remember reading comments like this in 2005! Haha.

The mid- to late-90s were a weird era for the low mileage-fast times theorists. My coach bought into it lock, stock, and barrel and our cross team basically ran the table. I went into a high mileage program in college and was consequently injured constantly. I credit my high school coach for making running such a fun and enjoyable experience that has carried me into my late 30s, still running competitively.

A better guess wrote:

A better guess is 1 or 2. Maybe 16 kids broke 9 that decade.

That is probably about right. The decade of the 90s was a horrendous time for HS distance running with that ridiculous "less is more" philosophy that took over. You had HS coaches afraid to go over 30mpw. It wasn't until the early 2000s that things began to change for the better.

JohnnyO wrote:

A better guess wrote:

A better guess is 1 or 2. Maybe 16 kids broke 9 that decade.

That is probably about right. The decade of the 90s was a horrendous time for HS distance running with that ridiculous "less is more" philosophy that took over. You had HS coaches afraid to go over 30mpw. It wasn't until the early 2000s that things began to change for the better.

Sub 4:10, sub 9:00 by decade (mile and 2 mile)

----4:10---9:00

60s 44 14

70s 105 102

80s 68 49

90s 38 17

00s 56 58 (up to 2004)

1960 0 0

1961 1 0

1962 1 0

1963 1 0

1964 2 1

1965 6 1

1966 8 3

1967 9 1

1968 7 2

1969 9 6

1970 8 6

1971 6 7

1972 11 12

1973 12 10

1974 16 11

1975 8 13

1976 12 11

1977 13 18

1978 12 6

1979 8 10

1980 12 8

1981 6 9

1982 11 5

1983 9 5

1984 6 1

1985 8 5

1986 7 7

1987 5 7

1988 4 1

1989 3 1

1990 6 3

1991 2 1

1992 5 1

1993 2 0

1994 3 2

1995 3 0

1996 1 1

1997 6 2

1998 4 0

1999 6 7

2000 14 10

2001 8 7

2002 7 9

2003 15 14

2004 12 18

Finally somebody mentions demographics and the massive upswing in elite invitational 3200 races, factors which account for most of the increase in

Jesuit44 wrote:

Finally somebody mentions demographics and the massive upswing in elite invitational 3200 races, factors which account for most of the increase in

Once upon a time, say in the 80s, the 32/2 was the absolute dumping ground for coaches to shuffle their "worst" athletes and then not even train them. Nowadays at some meets, the 32 is premier event and at some meets they get the nighttime under the lights treatment.

.....Other factors:

Shoes

Faster tracks

Training knowledge

Dietary knowledge

This is a remarkably short but also very strong list. These guys were miles (or more literally, several seconds) ahead of the nearest competititon).

As a SoCal prep runner, I saw Dameworth finish over 20 seconds ahead of 2nd place at a major X-C invitational.

Escobar was the first HS runner in Orange County (pop: 3 million+) to break 9:00 since Greg Whiteley in 1985. That lull really illustrates the slowdown from the mid 80s to 2000.

Is there a well-researched account of how prep running changed from the 1970s-early 80s to account for this lull? And what happened the late 90s to produce the likes of Hall, Ritz, Webb? I know that a lot of the 70s prep stars had career-derailing injuries by college, presumably due to overtraining - that may have led to cut back in weekly mileage.

Coe and Martin were more effective at disinformation and performance disruption than the CIA and KGB combined. Truly evil stuff was fobbed onto the masses with that book. U.S. (and I reckon UK as well) coaches mostly believed that 30 miles/week was legitimate training for distance guys.

It would be interesting to see trends in other nations, particularly Japan.

Here’s a deep 1996 list.

http://www.cs.uml.edu/~phoffman/nats/topb32.htm

Alan

At Arcadia in ‘99 Tenforde dropped a 2:11 mid race and won by almost 10 sec. Source: on the receiving end

The low mileage training theory is a cop out. There were plenty of HS runners NOT running low mileage.

Lack of information is also a cop out. Every school has a library.

Alan