Gene Dykes breaks Ed Whitlock's record at Jacksonville Marathon!

Very true. I was just down in So cal. The celebrities come in an come in on the weekends for special visits a the clinic to remain as anonymous as possible. The business is booming down there.

YMMV wrote:

He also ran 3:2x at CIM, Not sure what that was about.

Ed was 73 when he ran the 2:54, Gene is 70, so Ed still ahead on age-graded basis.

I believe he ran CIM with his daughter. That was after running a 50km the day prior. He wasn't chasing a fast time on the course as it's not record eligible.

No I fully understood your allegation of double standards and I tried to respond to it. I have no idea if this one particular guy is roiding. I was trying to point out that as a guy myself approaching 50 that I have a buff physique and I've never touched any roids or PEDs in my life. In fact, most of the time I only work out with a couple of dumbells at home.

I have no problem ascribing the clean world record to Nick Willis. If the 25 best times above him were Chinese and Russian, I'm pretty sure African obsessed individuals like you wouldn't be screaming racist at all at me. In fact, I'm confident that you'd be claiming that the fastest African behind all those Chinese or Russians would be the clean WR holder. It's quite possible one of those 25 or whatever African runners were clean, the fact is I believe that doping in Africa at this point has been shown to be so endemic and out of control, that it's right to cast suspicion on every one of those times, especially the times ran in the unfettered EPO era.

If you look at the top 20 list or so, at least 2/3s were more or less obvious EPO dopers, and some of them have even been busted (one of them - Kiprop - this year, with even minimally improved testing in Kenya).

All your evidence that this guy dopes or there is an endemic doping problem in Masters running is one picture of a buff 50 year old fast dude. My reasoning on African mile times is based upon weekly drug busts, including that of the world number 1 Asbel Kiprop this very year, well documented corruption in the athletics infrastructure in that country, including testers who can be bought with cups of tea to the very top (including ex- greats like Keino) who embezzle millions away from young athletes to spend on their mansions.

So although I did understand your accusation of doping standards, it was pretty cra p to be honest, and I would hardly have to have been autistic to miss it.

You know if Ouma's boys don't slow down in the next couple of years, and if nobody associated with their camp gets busted, then I'm happy to believe that Tim is the clean WR holder (or one of the Manangois if they run faster in the next couple of years).

And I wouldn't be surprised at all if doping, or at least TRT use is rife in Masters running. I'm just saying that this one buff individual isn't evidence of either him being doped or there being a doping problem in general.

USADA makes it clear that they don’t give a TUE for old guys just because they fooled a doctor into giving them a prescription. It needs to be a serious hypogonadism siutajton to be granted the TUE.

In other words, all those millions taking testosterone would be cheating if they competed in races...

SteelTownRunner wrote:

YMMV wrote:

He also ran 3:2x at CIM, Not sure what that was about.

Ed was 73 when he ran the 2:54, Gene is 70, so Ed still ahead on age-graded basis.

I believe he ran CIM with his daughter. That was after running a 50km the day prior. He wasn't chasing a fast time on the course as it's not record eligible.

I saw that on his Strava. Just a little 55-mile weekend a week before setting the WAGR. Dude has some serious ability to recover for any age, much less 70.

YMMV wrote:

I saw that on his Strava. Just a little 55-mile weekend a week before setting the WAGR. Dude has some serious ability to recover for any age, much less 70.

How'd that be much different than Whitlock? Whitlock wasn't on Strava, but we know he ran 3 hours a day at around 8:00 min/mile. That's at least 21 miles a day consistently, so he was doing 140 mile weeks during peak training, right?

DougC wrote:

USADA makes it clear that they don’t give a TUE for old guys just because they fooled a doctor into giving them a prescription. It needs to be a serious hypogonadism siutajton to be granted the TUE.

In other words, all those millions taking testosterone would be cheating if they competed in races...

Or women. In another thread, someone said a Masters women age group champ claimed she had near zero T levels, so was given a prescription.

First, we don't know if the above claim is true or not, so won't name names. But well, maybe 55 year old women normally have zero T levels, especially when training! Not naming name or making claims against said person, just addressing the fact that 50+ women shouldn't be getting TRT period.

DougC wrote:

USADA makes it clear that they don’t give a TUE for old guys just because they fooled a doctor into giving them a prescription. It needs to be a serious hypogonadism siutajton to be granted the TUE.

In other words, all those millions taking testosterone would be cheating if they competed in races...

You're not current on things dude. USADA has a new "Recreational Competitor TUE" (RCTUE):

Smoketown Runner wrote:

YMMV wrote:

I saw that on his Strava. Just a little 55-mile weekend a week before setting the WAGR. Dude has some serious ability to recover for any age, much less 70.

How'd that be much different than Whitlock? Whitlock wasn't on Strava, but we know he ran 3 hours a day at around 8:00 min/mile. That's at least 21 miles a day consistently, so he was doing 140 mile weeks during peak training, right?

We'll never have any Strava for Ed, but my impression with Ed was that he was self-coached entirely, he steadily and consistently built up his 15-20 mile days of monotony (by his own words) in the same cemetery and raced on weekends, 5-10K, for "speedwork" during a buildup.

Gene, OTOH, is guy relatively new to scene doing it very differently, zipping around the country and doing more hard/easy days, and is coached with much lower mileage (50-60 mpw avg by the looks of his Strava). All credit to him, but he seems to be doing things quite differently. It seems to be working, and it shows we are all different.

I personally really doubt that Gene is on TRT, but I was pretty shocked at the overall TRT stats on incidence that I found with just a little googling. I am one of the lucky many who is too slow to be suspect, but I also have no doubt that in the my faster days I have had to compete with cheaters. Heck, just look at all the mid-packers going to great lengths to cut courses (oh the irony) just to BQ or brag on Instagram. TRT would be a way of cutting corners with way less chance of getting caught. That's just how it is in 2018.

Smoketown Runner wrote:

YMMV wrote:

I saw that on his Strava. Just a little 55-mile weekend a week before setting the WAGR. Dude has some serious ability to recover for any age, much less 70.

How'd that be much different than Whitlock? Whitlock wasn't on Strava, but we know he ran 3 hours a day at around 8:00 min/mile. That's at least 21 miles a day consistently, so he was doing 140 mile weeks during peak training, right?

Actually Ed ran around the cemetery at more like 9:00 pace not 8:00.

Whitlockfan wrote:

Smoketown Runner wrote:

How'd that be much different than Whitlock? Whitlock wasn't on Strava, but we know he ran 3 hours a day at around 8:00 min/mile. That's at least 21 miles a day consistently, so he was doing 140 mile weeks during peak training, right?

Actually Ed ran around the cemetery at more like 9:00 pace not 8:00.

Yeah...but like for 12-15 miles at a time. ?

From 3:29 to 3:16 to 2:57 to 2:55 then 8wks later, 2:54, in his late 60's to 70+. Supposedly he had been running only 3 times a week and had gotten a running coach, which led to this. Anyone have this coach's number? To recuperate in that short a period of time at his age is attention worthy. I'm reserving judgement on these results for now.

Thanks for the answer.

Rtype wrote:

oldfastmen wrote:

Does he get tested for PEDs? Just curious about the elite older guys - not accusing him of anything.

"He also said that he’s been tested twice for banned substances—once in competition after a masters track meet and once, about 18 months ago, testers showed up unannounced to his home"

From the RW article announcing the record.

Montego wrote:

From 3:29 to 3:16 to 2:57 to 2:55 then 8wks later, 2:54, in his late 60's to 70+. Supposedly he had been running only 3 times a week and had gotten a running coach, which led to this. Anyone have this coach's number? To recuperate in that short a period of time at his age is attention worthy. I'm reserving judgement on these results for now.

John Goldthorp of Fix Your Run, a local Philadelphia area coach.

It's always fascinating how threads go off the rails on this board. What elite African runners may or may not be doing has nothing to do with Gene Dykes' impressive performance. As a 69 year old who just finished Club XC nationals, I did not see anyone in the 60+ race who looked like a suspicious doping candidate. The guys at the front of the race were pretty much the same names that have been at the front of races for the age groups the last couple of decades. Congratulations to him on a great performance. He is on Strava and you can see all his training. The people I know who have run against him say he is a really nice guy.

SteelTownRunner wrote:

Montego wrote:

From 3:29 to 3:16 to 2:57 to 2:55 then 8wks later, 2:54, in his late 60's to 70+. Supposedly he had been running only 3 times a week and had gotten a running coach, which led to this. Anyone have this coach's number? To recuperate in that short a period of time at his age is attention worthy. I'm reserving judgement on these results for now.

John Goldthorp of Fix Your Run, a local Philadelphia area coach.

https://www.fixyourrun.com/about-john-goldthorp/

Haha, someone else with the magic formula, how many is that now?

And of course, there's money involved.

apparently, he has been tested.

“I’ve often said that my ability to recover is my super power,” he said in the days leading up to his Jacksonville attempt. He also said that he’s been tested twice for banned substances—once in competition after a masters track meet and once, about 18 months ago, testers showed up unannounced to his home.

moanswers wrote:

https://www.runnersworld.com/news/a25593341/70-year-old-marathon-record/

apparently, he has been tested.

“I’ve often said that my ability to recover is my super power,” he said in the days leading up to his Jacksonville attempt. He also said that he’s been tested twice for banned substances—once in competition after a masters track meet and once, about 18 months ago, testers showed up unannounced to his home.

Well...lets drop the PED suspicion and give the cat the benefit of the doubt.

The OOC test should mean something compared to any IC testing - and he passed it! And if you guys don't think OOC testing is the gold standard, well then look at the number of Kenyans nailed recently for OOC doping positives. OOC testing rules!

Montego wrote:

From 3:29 to 3:16 to 2:57 to 2:55 then 8wks later, 2:54, in his late 60's to 70+. Supposedly he had been running only 3 times a week and had gotten a running coach, which led to this. Anyone have this coach's number? To recuperate in that short a period of time at his age is attention worthy. I'm reserving judgement on these results for now.

Eight weeks between marathons is plenty of time.

The ignorance and all the talk about drugs on this web site is appalling.