Why is is acceptable for a 15 minute guy to say “I train like a 13:30 guy, I just don’t have the talent” but .

killerer wrote:

It's because mostly any serious runner could run 15:30 for 5k if they are mentally tough enough and train hard. But 13:30 is a different level. That's unattainable without exceptional talent too.

Someone who tests 30 vo2 untrained will never achieve a 15 minute 5k when fully trained even if they are super mentally tough and train super hard. They can expect to get near 20 minutes at best.

Believe it or not 15 or even 17 minutes is also very unobtainable without a certain level of talent.

People think mileage and workouts only need to be the same amount and pattern.

Your training time always dictates your race times.

In other words, a 15 min guy is not training like a 13:30 guy.

LR needs therapy wrote:

3hr-marathoner wrote:

Why isn't this ok to say? It happens all the time that two guys are on the same team, same coach, same volume, same workouts, yet one of them is minutes faster over 5k. The 17-minute guy may well know that he's putting more effort into training than the more talented 15-minute guy. I think it's fair for him to conclude that he simply has less talent.

That’s exactly what I’m try to say. That sentence was a follow on from the title.

“Why is is acceptable for a 15 minute guy to say “I train like a 13:30 guy, I just don’t have the talent” but It’s not okay for a less talented 17 minute guy to say “I train like a 15 minute guy, I just don’t have the talent”

because it isn't anymore acceptable to say "I study like an A student, but I just get C's." or I wear the same swimsuit as Christie Brinkley but I didn't get on the cover of SI.......We all have a genetic ceiling for everything.. from looks to smarts to athletic ability.... so to answer your question.... its not any more acceptable for the 15 or 17 minute guy to say that... and I never knew a time when it was

So I won't take a side on whether one comment is "ok" and the other isn't, but the difference between the two comments has to do with the distribution of performance potential.

How fast you can run is given by some combination of the basic fitness granted by your genetics without training, your lifetime training history (including diet, sleep, other activities, everything), and how much you respond to training (also genetic). Very few people can ever run a 13 min 5k, regardless of training and lifestyle because that kind of performance demands that you are maxing out the training component and are also among the best in the world in terms of genetic starting point and response to training. As you slow down in performance, say to 15 mins, if you are willing and able to maximize training in the same way there is now a lot more room for slack on the genetic components. Additionally, you pick up some genetically gifted people who don't maximize training and still run 15 mins. Once you slow to 17 mins, it is likely that many people can get there without maxing out training based on decent genetics.

So the likelihood that a 17 min runner has really maxed out their training and lifestyle factors in order to achieve that time is lower than for a 15 min runner. In other words a larger percent of 15 min runners are at their genetic ceiling without room for increased training than 17 min runners, and so many 15 min runners might be inclined to believe that the 17 min guys aren't maxed out on training. Also, all 15 min guys were once running 17 mins, and either maintained or increased their training load and lifestyle factors to become 15 min guys so of course they are biased to feel that way from their personal experience.

These particular times are arbitrary - it's really a continuum from fast to slow. The slower your best performance is the less likely it is that you are actually maxed out on training and lifestyle factors. Doesn't mean you definitely aren't, but you should really take a serious and honest evaluation of it if you think you've hit your ceiling at a slow time.