Milage isn’t working for me :( have I reached my genetic potential?

I occasionally do strides the last 0.5 miles of easy runs. Thanks, I’ll look into downhill sprinting. This could be useful ?

Pick one wrote:

Pick one:

-Mileage isn't working

-Only run 60 MPW

+1

60 MPW is only a little bit over a hour of running a day. Add another easy 15-30 minute session each day.

I read the thread pretty carefully and didn't see an age mentioned. Perhaps i missed it but that could make a lot of difference in all this.... Esp. when considering total mileage.

Downhill sprints are good and the key is to a) slope of only about 2% to 3% downhill - not too steep! and b) do not over-stride. You want to be teaching your body on an an unconscious level how to maximize its capacity and perhaps reach capacities of stride length, open hips, full extension, etc. that you have not been hitting before. Stay relaxed and controlled.

Strides are good but for most of us, they aren't really pushing our boundaries. I would really try to work some 200 m. and 300 m. intervals into your program once in a while. Or fartlek. Also, you can never go wrong with hill sprints.

Keep experimenting as this is a work in progress.

Okay, you're 25 as i see now and i need to read more closely. Congrats to you, you've got many years of good running to look forward to. Keep working on it, and it will come together.

I don't do any of that sht.

I feel like you are doing your tempos too slow, maybe shoot for 6:50-7:00 pace for 4-6 miles with 1-2 mile warmup and 1-2 mile cooldown.

Also I found 400's are too short to get that much improvement out of (and you are doing them at mile pace?!?!? way too fast for 5k work) . Try mixing some 800's and 1200 sessions in there. Maybe 6x800 or 4x1200 at 6:00 pace + 1.5 up/1.5 down.

Thats how I got under 20, and now under 19 in the last year. Run 6 days a week for around 40-45 miles, make sure you get the tempo workout, the interval workout, and one 10-14 mile long run (with 3 more easier days) each week. I am just a normal guy, normal level of talent.

Good luck!

Ultra_bro_real1 wrote:

Oh you have zero base then. Takes a while

Spaxter, you've never raced in track or cross country in middle school or high school?

I'm 45, non-runned my entire life a d couldn't touch hour Mile to save my life

I run around 15-18 mpw on a trip schedule and suck pretty badly (5:45 70.3)

But I focus a bit on the 5k, and on a day where I make a deal with my maker, and enter the red zone the entire second half of a 5k, with perfect weather And pacing I'll sneak under 20 by a handful of secs

Current mile PR is 5:57 lol, but I've learned to race the 5k to my ability.

Are you just tempo'ing your 5k races? I'll go like mid/high 21s on days I just don't got it (which happen more and more these days), but on a perfect day, I'll sneak under 20 which nobody cares about but me

Honestly if you snuck under 19 or 18 nobody would card either. You obviously have the wheels to get under 18 or even 17, but are you squandering the gift?

Ya this is me pretty much. How can dude not run 3 x 6 min miles or whatever.

try working on your 200 and 400

you should be faster than 30 in the 200 with a 13.5 100 pr

consider running with a running group that does regular speed workouts.

The reason i say that is becuase it is an excellent way to push yourself on a regular basis. You fall into a certain group and find yourself jockeying to stay up with so-and-so and never get beaten by that other guy(s). Hitting your stride amongst the various distances you run becomes routine.

And i agree with the last several posts suggesting you vary up your speed work. Some shorter than 400 and some longer, in addition to the 400s you've been running. It helps to run them to an uncomfortably hard level. And a group pushes some of us in that direction and that's a good thing.

Change up your quality workouts wrote:

I feel like you are doing your tempos too slow, maybe shoot for 6:50-7:00 pace for 4-6 miles with 1-2 mile warmup and 1-2 mile cooldown.

Also I found 400's are too short to get that much improvement out of (and you are doing them at mile pace?!?!? way too fast for 5k work) . Try mixing some 800's and 1200 sessions in there. Maybe 6x800 or 4x1200 at 6:00 pace + 1.5 up/1.5 down.

Thats how I got under 20, and now under 19 in the last year. Run 6 days a week for around 40-45 miles, make sure you get the tempo workout, the interval workout, and one 10-14 mile long run (with 3 more easier days) each week. I am just a normal guy, normal level of talent.

Good luck!

Sound advice.

Right now I am doing 2 workouts a week plus a long run (15 miles @ 8:45 pace) on sunday. The rets are just milage/easy run days with occasional strides. Workout days are Tuesday and Thursday. Alternating weeks I do:

Tues: 8 x 1000 repeats @ 6:30-6:40 pace

Thurs: fartlek run (my garmin says my jogs are around 9:45 pace and when I speed up my pace averages 6:00). I usually do this for 40-45 minutes.

Tues: 10 x 400m @ 82 secs with 1:00-1:15 rest (the only reason I put this workout in once bi-weekly is to occasionally run way faster than my 5k race paces, this makes the other paces feel easier psychologically)

Thurs: 25 - 30 minute tempo run

I will try speeding up my tempos, I think out of all of the workouts listed I find tempos the mpst gruelling. 6:50 pace for 3.5 miles feels quite very hard hence why I keep them at 7:00 pace. But I’ll try scrapping the 400s for the next couple of months (but go extra on the farleks to make up for this) and do weekly tempo runs instead. This makes sense considering it is my weakness. One week I’ll do a 4 miles at 7 pace, the next week I’ll do 20 minutes at 6:50 and build up from there.

Spaxter wrote:

Thurs: fartlek run (my garmin says my jogs are around 9:45 pace and when I speed up my pace averages 6:00). I usually do this for 40-45 minutes.

.

Sounds like you aren't doing a true fartlek run. But a timed interval session, it is very important for runners to learn how to do a true fartlek run. Running by feel, surging by feel, that is a true fartlek run. Which the origins of the word is Swedish for speed play, not timed intervals.

It’s 100% mental. You aren’t pushing yourself hard enough on hard days.

Learn to suffer. I ran 18:45 after 3 months of running. I didn’t start fat, so that helped.

Fact Fact wrote:

It’s 100% mental. You aren’t pushing yourself hard enough on hard days.

Learn to suffer. I ran 18:45 after 3 months of running. I didn’t start fat, so that helped.

^^^

This, OP you need to embrace suffering. Embrace the pain. Embrace the grind of high mileage. OP up your mileage, 60 MPW ain't nothing and 40 MPW is barely training. And until you get fast the only workouts you should do are progression runs, steady runs, true fartlek runs and some strides and short hill sprints. If I were you you should do something like:

Am 30 -60 minutes easy

Pm 60 minutes medium effort to hard effort, rather that is a steady run, progression run, fartlek run, just go by feel. People forget Lydiard said to fartlek as often. And when I say a fartlek run, I mean a true fartlek run. Not timed intervals

And two-three days a week do some strides, diagonals or short hill sprints.

Do this for 8-12 weeks and come back to tell us your 5k pr.

seattle prattle wrote:

It sounds to me that what you need is the real high end speed work that will open up your biomechanics and teach your body how to maximize stride mechanics and efficiency. Doing intervals in the 200 meter to 400 meter range or condiser doing downhill sprints (look them up, you want to do these the right way) and even building strides into your regular workouts.

I'm in the same situation as the OP (just no alcohol past - my father took care of it to hate it... OP, you should hate alcohol too!!!)

Are these 200s, 400s all out sprints? If not, how fast? Rest? 3 mins of lying on the ground? 2 mins of walking? 4 min 400m jog? Other? How many? start with 4-6, and build up to 10? 15? 40?

Thanks ;)

Logically, there are only two options:

- either you have platoed;

- or you are doing something wrong

Without knowing all the details it's hard to tell 100%, but looking solely at your PRs, I think there should still be some space for improvement.

I myself am similar build to yours (5'8'' and 135 lbs). I also started to run on low mileage and lots of quality and only the last two or so of years have averaged above 50 mpw. I still keep improving but at age 33 training is not happening the same as 7-8 years ago when I picked up running.

Since you have been doing very low mileage for many years you certainly haven't maxed out your aerobic abilities. It takes years and and even decades to max out aerobic ability but if you started very late your age might catch you before you ever max out. This means you will need to keep working on mileage. I don't suggest to go into 80+ range now, keep working in 50-60 range and don't forget about quality work.

Another thing that comes to my mind is that you said you are bodybuilder type and have problems with stiff muscles which makes me think that you probably have not the best running technique as well as running with good, efficient stride means you need to be able to run relaxed. This means you need to stretch a lot. Stretch and do speed work to develop efficiency.

And last but not least seems you have taken it too serious at some times. I would suggest to loosen up. Train but don't strain. Have a plan that you can follow consistently year round with slight adjustments but don't over do it. Follow your health. You said you have extremely low fat percentage, it's possible you also have low ferritin/hematocrit, maybe D vit. deficiency

Takeaway:

- work on mileage but increase slowly year to year

- stretch and work on running effeciency

- follow your health and don't over do it

Good luck

Even with no workouts and 35mpw I easily run mid 18. When I started running I was legit fat and I'm still pretty big at 5'10" high 160s. To be honest without knowing what your training looks like beyond 60mpw it will be hard to say why you're sucking relative to the work you put in. Quality of the field you compete against is maybe a factor. Perhaps you run at small races and struggle or are afraid to push yourself hard from the start without runners dragging you along.

Try with people who are better and you will improve a lot. You also haven't come close to running top mileage. Give yourself enough time to recover, more sleep, naps, hard-easy-medium-hard workouts on consecutive days.