Do cyclists suck on purpose?

TS' gf getting pounded by a cyclist

WiredHeart wrote:

There is a reason people say “it’s like riding a bike.” Even pushing it, for anyone mildly athletic, cycling isn't much more effort than walking.

In fact people say "it's like riding a bike" when comparing something else that may also use our procedural memory.

You should understand that your issue is not with "a cyclist." Your issue is with another human being who was riding a bike. A deeper issue is that you felt slighted to be the one to move off to the side rather than the other guy moving to the side. Does it hurt your pride to be humble in the face of someone else who isn't?

Again, next time you go right ahead and take the guy out and come back to let us know if it was worth it or if maybe stepping to the side for 3 seconds was the better move after all.

This is what happens when cities don't have adequate bike lanes and cycle paths. The most rational thing to do is talk to your city council. Tell them that inadequate infrastructure is causing physical harm to pedestrians, cyclists, and drivers and that these three groups all need designated areas to be in so they don't kill each other. It isn't rocket science.

as a runner and non-cyclist, I'd like to put in a good word for cyclists. I run often on multi-use trails and find cyclists to be the most predictable, most safety conscious, least aggressive, least oblivious of all the user groups (runners, walkers, cyclists mainly). In case useful for anyone else, my tips for safe running in mixed company:

--stay well over to the right

--run by yourself or single file

--look both ways before entering, crossing, exiting, or changing lanes

--no headphones

--when you hear a bike bell or "on your left", raise left arm to acknowledge, and if you weren't all the way over, get over right

i've been running for 43 years and can count on one hand with a couple fingers to spare the negative interactions I've had with cyclists, and even these were mild. Most of the time it's just people flying by on my left waving or saying thanks or "have a good run" or just nothing and on their way. no collisions, no near misses.

We can all get along -- let's share the paths.

I was going to make a thread about this the other day. Glad I'm not the only one who thinks cyclists are complete to$$ers.

Yessssss wrote:

Knock them off their bicycles and report back in this thread about the aftermath

There's been at least a couple of cases in the UK recently where cyclists have killed pedestrians. I'm pretty sturdy for a hobby jogger but if a guy on a bike hits me straight on at 40km/hour then I'm going to be out of action for a long time.

Nearly every other cyclist who passes me when out on a run seems to make a point of veering in and out of my lane. When in pairs or threes they ride side by side and enter my lane expecting me to move to the side of the path. As somebody else said, often at this time of year the sides are covered with slippy leaves, and soon ice or snow. Pretty sure I'm going to get into a fight with a cyclist at some point.

I am curious if you run with a head lamp or some kind of visibility gear? I run in the dark often and have a blackdiamond sprint headlamp with steady light in front and a flashing light in the back. Cyclists use the water front trail where I run but seem to be fully aware of me.

Jimmy Chonga wrote:

moanswers wrote:

Those are the guys that can't ride with the real cyclists who are out on the local race rides. They know they can't keep up so they try and look like rock starts on the pedestrian paths.

This, 100%.

All the serious cyclists I know do the weekly group rides. The couple guys I know that make use of a popular multi-use trail in my area are just casual cyclists (I can't attest to their behavior on the trail, but they have $1K bikes, not $10K kit).

All the serious runners I know meet two or three times a week to do group distance runs or interval sessions on a track. Those guys that can't run with the real runners try and look like rock stars on the pedestrian paths.

Frustration and anger might be warranted, but it won't solve the problem and might make it worse. Instead:

1. Ask your City Council to paint KEEP RIGHT periodically on the path - this will remind all users, on foot or bike.

2. Ask your City Council to put up signs at entrance points that say "cyclists please use bell to signal before passing". Many don't have bells. Some will get one. Even if they don't, the sign is a reminder to cyclists that they are responsible for safely navigating through foot traffic, and not the other way around. They might slow down a little.

3. Be friendly. While running/walking, say hi or wave, or say "Use your bell please, thanks!" At most, if cyclists are riding fast or wide, just a gentle downward motion with your hand to slow down.

That's it - do that, and over time (weeks or months) a culture of shared path use grows. It has worked where I live. Even the tiny kids learning to ride are adamant about staying right and using bells.

It is generally a lose/lose situation for everyone. Cyclists use the multi-use trails because they are afraid of getting killed on the roads by impatient and reckless drivers. But the multi-use trails are not designed for cyclists going much faster than 12 mph. Trails are too narrow and often have traffic going in both directions with no separation between the lanes of traffic. So, someone wearing headphones stops to turn around and gets killed by a cyclist going 20 mph. This happened on the Katy Trail in Dallas. I agree that cyclists should not be using shared trails to ride hard. I do not care how conscientious or courteous you are. The risk of a serious collision is just too real. But cities need to build their multi-use trails to accommodate both cyclists and pedestrians. There need to be separate trails that are divided from each other so the cyclists and get up plenty of speed to have a good workout without ever coming into contact with runners and walkers.

Well said!

disgraceful_admin wrote:

That said, everyone on a bike is entitled to their workout... Actually, I've seen cyclists crash because of people like that and need to be put on a stretcher. The pedestrians who cause the accidents usually don't even show the slightest hint of awareness of the suffering and damage they cause.

If you look up the actual laws on cycling, none of what you just said is true. Nobody is entitled to a workout, especially when they're a danger to others. Pedestrians ALWAYS have the right of way. If you deem that a path is too crowded to not hit someone, then you should't be riding there. And on trails it goes horses -> hikers -> runners -> cyclists. It's riders who feel entitled to their workout at all costs who ruin it for everyone else. Thing is it's the same people who whine about how aggressive and dangerous cars are when they're riding on the road.

You actually didn't get this quite right. The Founding Fathers did enshrine the right to a bike workout in an amendment to the Constitution (you were probably just thinking of the Constitution language itself). Most people think of the Second Amendment as the 'gun amendment', but the second part refers to the matter at hand:

"A well regulated 3-wide Sunday group ride, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to mash the pedals on any surface, paved or otherwise, shall not be infringed."

There was some question of what 'mash' meant in the 1700s, but Scalia was able to connect the dots. It's about effort, and not speed, and no American can be penalized for being totally jacked in the saddle.

moanswers wrote:

WiredHeart wrote:

I run a lot on a small, paved, two-lane pedestrian commuter path. It annoys me when groups of wannabe Lance Armstrongs time trial on a path full of walkers, runners and small kids - there are stop lights every mile so even for workouts it makes no sense.

Those are the guys that can't ride with the real cyclists who are out on the local race rides. They know they can't keep up so they try and look like rock starts on the pedestrian paths.

100% this. I've never seen a solid cyclist that is a decent racer going full send on a MUP. In fact, about the only time good cyclists ride on those is either to get across really obnoxious roads in town on the way to ride somewhere cool, or for recovery spins where they are barely pedalling.

If you're getting 3 wide groups or guys ripping by with no courtesy, that's almost always more then MAMIL crowd with their expensive bikes...or the occasional new kid that is just getting in to cycling and hasn't learned what the real benchmarks are being something of a dumba$$.

The way you describe it however, makes it seem like a HUGE problem endemic to almost all cyclists when in reality it's a clueless/obnoxious small percentage. It's like driving or anything else, most drivers aren't out on the road to be total a$$ hats to people...but a small percentage do drive that way. Same situation in cycling.

WiredHeart wrote:

There is a reason people say “it’s like riding a bike.” Even pushing it, for anyone mildly athletic, cycling isn't much more effort than walking.

What.

Like....what? I have no idea what you mean

Last time I checked pushing 6w/kg on a bike is a little, just a little more effort than walking. That's going to burn 1500 kcal/hr, walking burns maybe 300 if you're going brisk? Are you genuinely saying it takes the same amount of effort to pedal 30mph on flat ground or 15mph up a 6% grade as it does to go walk around the block?

Cycling is like anything else. You can do it at an intensity not all that much different from sitting on the couch, or you can do it at the intensity of 100m sprint.

Coevett wrote:

Nearly every other cyclist who passes me when out on a run seems to make a point of veering in and out of my lane. When in pairs or threes they ride side by side and enter my lane expecting me to move to the side of the path. As somebody else said, often at this time of year the sides are covered with slippy leaves, and soon ice or snow. Pretty sure I'm going to get into a fight with a cyclist at some point.

#1 - The people that do this are 95% the crowd of MAMILs who for whatever reason tend to be wannabe racers. They are not serious cyclists in any sense of the word. They are very much your weekend warrior/hobby cyclist crowd. Legitimate cyclists ride and train on the roads, for obvious reasons

#2 - You're wording is ridiculous. Perhaps 1 in 20 cyclists makes a point of veering out into your lane. Aggressive groups like you describe are also rare. Yes, these things happen, just as run ins with dumba$$ drivers do. They are also a small minority. Saying you have a problem with cyclist is very disingenuous. Saying you have a problem with dumba$$ entitled cyclists is legitimate, and I suspect we all agree on that.

It seems insanely dangerous to do a serious bike workout in public anywhere near a city. Do serious racers do most of their speed stuff on rollers?

Clam Evans wrote:

It seems insanely dangerous to do a serious bike workout in public anywhere near a city. Do serious racers do most of their speed stuff on rollers?

Most popular options are long stretches of flat road out of town with lesser traffic and stop signs, or on climbs/hills.

I don't know too many racers or riders serious about there training who do anything harder than ride at a cruising pace moving through town.

WiredHeart wrote:

Thursday night a jerk riding toward me in the center of my lane grazed me. Afterward I was wondering if I should have leaned left just enough to make body contact and knock him off his bike.

Has anyone had similar experiences? I assume runners have the right of way and if I don’t get out of their way it is on them to avoid me. As long as the bike doesn't hit me, I think the rider will take that worst of it if we connect. It seems so bizarre to me that anyone riding a bike wouldn't have the courtesy to just stay in their lane.

Yes, yes I've had similar experiences. One time I "leaned in" as they say-

Generally on multi use trails the recommendation is that pedestrians and cyclists yield to horse riders, and cyclists yield to pedestrians. So cyclists should be yielding to all other users on a multi use trail.

All users should keep as far right on the trail or path as possible.

These are general courtesy recommendations. In most places there are no rules that require this behavior. Thus the frustration when people do no respect these recommendations.

Generally on multiple use trails there is a high potential for conflict between user groups. This conflict is generally asymmetrical, with the less intense uses lower down on the hierarchy (pedestrians at the bottom low end) experiencing conflict due to actions of those users above on the hierarchy. Generally pedestrians experience conflict due to the presence of cyclists, not the other way around.

Conflict can be real and visible (physical contact, shouting, etc.) or perceived (dislike, anger or hate). Either way conflict is conflict.

Much of the conflict is the result of different speeds of travel. The slower users generally are impacted by the faster travelers.

On a non motorized trail, cyclists are more likely to be traveling faster and thus more likely to cause conflict.

I consider running as another user group which is much faster than walking but slower than cycling. As someone who bikes, runs and walks, I am very sensitive to my potential to negatively impact the experience of others when I am moving faster than they are.

I do not believe cyclists should responsibly expect to get in a great workout while riding on a multi use trail. They should be on a road, where they have rights but are not going to impact other users due to their higher speeds. As a runner you should not responsibly expect to get a great workout on a route filled with walkers.

I hope you are running at night with good lights.

If you are visible and cyclists are not moving into single file formation to let you safely by, I recommend trying to get them to stop and having a civil conversation with them . Try to convince them that all users have to be courteous on a multiple use route. Ask them if they like it when cars pass them three abreast on a road.

To reduce conflict between user groups, some route managers prohibit certain uses on certain days of the week. Single track trails are only open to cyclists on some days and pedestrians on others. On another level, vehicles are prohibited on the roads of certain urban parks on certain days so the roads become non-motorized trails.