Jim Ryun did 20 mile runs

Gramps wrote:

This many wrote:

Thirty years ago 800 champ Johnny Gray told me he did weekly 20 mile runs.

Ryuns coach at Kansas burned through 30 decent runners with his abusive training and lucked out to get one GOAT, so I guess it was "worth it."

And even Ryun began to break down due to the heavy anaerobic training he did. He even admitted in later interviews, that that kind of training probably was a mistake. Nobody, especially someone with the talent he had, should peak when they're 20, even from his era.

Les wrote:

Gramps wrote:

Ryuns coach at Kansas burned through 30 decent runners with his abusive training and lucked out to get one GOAT, so I guess it was "worth it."

And even Ryun began to break down due to the heavy anaerobic training he did. He even admitted in later interviews, that that kind of training probably was a mistake. Nobody, especially someone with the talent he had, should peak when they're 20, even from his era.

You just gave the best reason why he isn't GOAT material.

Didn't John Carlos, fellow 1968 US Olympian say he believed Ryan had sub-46 400m ability? Jim Ryun was a very talented athlete. Jim Ryun trained very hard. Looking at Ryun's training, much of it looks STUPID. I state that with no disrespect to Ryun. Ryun trained the way his coaches told him to train. IMO, under modern conditions with modern tracks and modern shoes, Ryun today would be a 1:42.xx/3:29.xx 800m/1500m talent. Joggers discovering Jim Ryun logged many miles may want to pick and choose which Ryun training they want to emulate. If joggers want to copy Ryun, do his 40 x 440 yards workout, then I'll listen to posters regarding Ryun's mileage.

As a 6 foot tall former 800 man I will tell you that I always felt like I was kind of tripping over my legs on 200 m. tracks. Thankfully I never ran on a board track, but I'm sure for a tall guy going at 1:48 800 m. speed (it is less of an issue at slower paces) that it affected him some.

guy who assumes a lot wrote:

Gravey wrote:

That 1:48 is probably worth 1:45/6 on today's banked, tuned and fast indoor tracks.

yeah right. get a life

McGruff wrote:

As a 6 foot tall former 800 man I will tell you that I always felt like I was kind of tripping over my legs on 200 m. tracks. Thankfully I never ran on a board track, but I'm sure for a tall guy going at 1:48 800 m. speed (it is less of an issue at slower paces) that it affected him some.

guy who assumes a lot wrote:

yeah right. get a life

You're correct. I don't know what ryun ran that wr on, but most of the indoor tracks in our time were either packed dirt 220yd or 10 laps to the mile boards.

ryun vermouth wrote:

jim ryun had a pretty short career....

this is interesting. What a slow 800m indoor record: "In 1967, Ryun set a world record in the indoor half mile (1:48.3) and the outdoor mile from (3:51.1), a record that stood for almost eight years."

This supports my comment about Timmons burning out his athletes.

I'd be surprised if Ralph Doubell hadnt run a faster indoor 880.

And yes, Bitter tears for the wasted talents of all those eager, young Jayhawks, injured physically or mentally by a meglomaniac. Timmons admitted as much in one of his last interviews.

McGruff wrote:

As a 6 foot tall former 800 man I will tell you that I always felt like I was kind of tripping over my legs on 200 m. tracks. Thankfully I never ran on a board track, but I'm sure for a tall guy going at 1:48 800 m. speed (it is less of an issue at slower paces) that it affected him some.

guy who assumes a lot wrote:

yeah right. get a life

I'm 6'-1" and ran 1:49.low indoors on a 200m track. Never stepped outta lane 1 and lane 1 wasn't banked. I only ran 1:47 as a pb. No way would a banked track have given me 3 seconds. An indoor 300m track wouldn't help much either.

If anything, running indoors removes the wind so you can run pretty fast if you're athletic.

I was fairly fast too, sub 48 relay splits outdoors

I'm saying: I'm shocked the indoor WR was so slow. Ryun (or someone) should have ben able to run 1:46.9 indoors even then

Year, all these sprint guys tell you that you have to train speed first etc., that is garbage. Fitness is fitness, improving the ability to train for any distance will benefit you. Improving the ability to deliver blood/oxygen throughout the body is a good thing. Harvey Glance started out his track career running 5 mile runs in boots, turned out to be pretty fast. That is completely contrary to the speed first all about the science guys. Jalen Rose ran XC for four years in HS, did that hurt his ability to jump? Wilt Chamberlain ran XC in HS and college. Running improves your ability to run and from there you can run more and run faster.

Bob Timmons was one of the all time greatest coaches.

He was probably the only coach anywhere who could have developed Jim Ryun to the level he achieved.

Timmons used to drive the team to Augusta at the start of cross country season, and have them run back, a distance of about 20 miles. Ryun and a couple of teammates had done a 50 mile "hike" one summer, running quite a bit of it. He did not run distance very fast, and usually did it quite slowly. He certainly did not do 20 miles of sprints.

Timmons had a big swim clock set up by the side of the track about 10 yards past the finish, so everyone could see it and get their own times. The varsity only built up to 40x 440 at the start of the season, then gradually tapered the number each week toward the big meets at the end of the season. Ryun only did 1 set of 4x 440 in the week before before his 4:01.7 and 3:59.0 miles, when he broke 4 minutes the first time.

The 440s were always run with a departure time of 3 minutes, so a 60 second 440 would have almost 2 minutes of rest.

Ryun almost always started his runs and reps relatively conservatively, and gradually picked up to a fast pace at the finish.

Bob Timmons was a very kind, supportive and generous coach. As a student at a nearby high school that had not much of a cross country or track team - my senior year was the first time we had cross country - he allowed me to train with his team during the summers and off seasons, and often during the season during my senior year. He also allowed me to travel with the team during trips, with the consent and knowledge of my coach, who was likewise extremely supportive of me. I am extremely appreciative to both of them.

Didn't he get two greats? Ryun and Billy Mills?

Anyway, the 1:48 indoor record is irrelevant. Ryun ran 1:44.9 880y outdoors.

He ran up to 110 mile weeks in hs according to a San Diego newspaper article based on an appearance he made.

I ran 1:49 high indoors. I was thinking more of an oversized track vs. a 200 m. track. I'm not the poster who said that this would have given him 3 seconds, but it definitely would be faster than what he ran. Agree that you don't fly out of the first couple lanes of a banked track in an 800 m. so it's not really an advantage.

Gramps wrote:

This many wrote:

Thirty years ago 800 champ Johnny Gray told me he did weekly 20 mile runs.

Ryuns coach at Kansas burned through 30 decent runners with his abusive training and lucked out to get one GOAT, so I guess it was "worth it."

Decent runners - code for joggers.

Guys like Herb Elliot, Jim Ryun were great because they could do the extra that led them to the next level. Its only abusive when you can't handle it.

The sport has always been about elite achievement. Average effort doesn't cut it.

Did Timmons burn out some runners, yes. But he had several top flight distance runners besides Ryun. Kent McDonald, Bill Lundberg, John Roscoe and George Mason were All Americans at Kansas.

I guess Timmons succeeded Billy Easton, who was Mills' coach at Kansas and had been there since 1948.

Mills felt essentially oppressed by Easton's yelling and only later reconciled with him and became great friends.

It was after Kansas when Mills joined the Marine Corps that he found a great coach for him in Tommy Thompson.

Transferred out to Camp Pendleton in California, he was able to handle his pre-diabetes by eating oranges along a ten mile hilly tempo course, allowing him to run sub 50 minutes for the runs often, and also he got to do much more speedwork than Easton had allowed him, eventually breaking 50s for the 400m.

https://www.runnersworld.com/runners-stories/a20797063/racing-split/

zxcvzxcv wrote:

Didn't he get two greats? Ryun and Billy Mills?

That was Bill Easton.

zxcvzxc wrote:

Anyway, the 1:48 indoor record is irrelevant. Ryun ran 1:44.9 880y outdoors.

He ran up to 110 mile weeks in hs according to a San Diego newspaper article based on an appearance he made.

Read "The Jim Ryun Story"...it will give you as much detail as you'd like. Very specific book regarding training details. Definitely over 100mpw many times.

guy who assumes a lot wrote:

I'm saying: I'm shocked the indoor WR was so slow. Ryun (or someone) should have ben able to run 1:46.9 indoors even then

Not even. The tracks back then were usually wooden banked 11 laps-to-a-mile.

The 880 was the event that always had the biggest slow-down compared to outdoor.

yesstiles wrote:

guy who assumes a lot wrote:

I'm saying: I'm shocked the indoor WR was so slow. Ryun (or someone) should have ben able to run 1:46.9 indoors even then

Not even. The tracks back then were usually wooden banked 11 laps-to-a-mile.

The 880 was the event that always had the biggest slow-down compared to outdoor.

Ryun set that record on a dirt track - and he was dodging girders while doing it! Just watch "America's Greatest Miler", there's footage of the race. The track was flat, and literally square. It's horrible and the footage is almost hilarious because of the poor track.