Yes defenses weren't as "sophisticated" but player's IQs were higher. Hell in today's game the players aren't smart enough to run sophisticated offenses.
Athletes were just as fit even if they weren't bigger. The fact that a 40 year old Vince Carter still has a job is testament to this.
Jordan was a great athlete ( like Gordon or lavine), charismatic and a great competitor.
He was a scoring machine, scoring at will and opening up the floor for his teammates. His defense was overrated. Not a bad defender but he wasnt a shut your best player down kind of defender. He would get steals by being sneaky. Sort of the way that steph curry is a defensive liability but can lead the league in steals.... just not as extreme
I saw him play with the Wizards. He was decent, but nothing special.
Jordan was a little ahead of his time, is all. His play was nothing special compared to today, but at the time he pushed everyone forward.
He was playing in the very early 90s, and it was truly a whole new game. But does it appear so now? No. It's been over 30 years.
Just like there were 30 years between when Jordan lit it up, and the 1958 NBA season was wrapping up:
He was thrilling to watch and most men around the country tuned in to watch.
Today's game isn't even worth watching.
It wasn't so much that he was that much more talented than anyone else -- although he was certainly spectacular -- as it was he hated to lose more than anyone else.
Bill Russell was the only other NBA player who hated to lose as much or more than Jordan.
Thanks for the replies. I'm still #teamBron but I have more respect for him
theJeff wrote:
Harambe wrote:
Sort of proving my point. Nobody is going to contend he was a generational athlete. No way he puts up those #'s today.
Why not? Because he is white?
Are you really going with, "John Stockton is not recognized as best NBA player ever just because he's white?" Larry Bird and Kevin McHale are white. Everyone who knows anything about basketball recognize the greatness of Kevin McHale and Larry Bird. Stockton is a Hall of Fame athlete. Stockton was definitely better than average. There was no need to say Jordan is not great because Stockton is really great. You do know: most NBA owners are white. You do know: most NBA fans are white. You do know: most in media covering NBA are white. There is no BLM conspiracy against John Stockton.
MJ was actually that good. He has the highest vertical jump in NBA history at 48 inches. When he went in to dunk, he just went up and over people.
90s basketball was all about dominating in the paint. Detroit would play Salley and Lambeer at 6'11" each and NY had Ewing at 7'. Most players would get bowled over by the kind of power that these teams had in the paint. But Jordan would just go over their heads.
Jordan was also the best down the stretch. No one could lead a team in the 4th quarter like Jordan. That is why they were able to threepete two times with MJ.
coach wrote:
Yes defenses weren't as "sophisticated" but player's IQs were higher. Hell in today's game the players aren't smart enough to run sophisticated offenses.
Athletes were just as fit even if they weren't bigger. The fact that a 40 year old Vince Carter still has a job is testament to this.
Jordan was a great athlete ( like Gordon or lavine), charismatic and a great competitor.
Everything you said in that was wrong except for the bit about Jordan.
no YOURE hilarious wrote:
coach wrote:
Yes defenses weren't as "sophisticated" but player's IQs were higher. Hell in today's game the players aren't smart enough to run sophisticated offenses.
Athletes were just as fit even if they weren't bigger. The fact that a 40 year old Vince Carter still has a job is testament to this.
Jordan was a great athlete ( like Gordon or lavine), charismatic and a great competitor.
Everything you said in that was wrong except for the bit about Jordan.
Carter, nowitzki, gasol, korver, calderon, Ginobli, Terry, Haslem are all old NBA players (Ginobli just retired). If the athletes of today are so much better why are slow 35+ year olds still playing.
Today's players are morons, it's too difficult to run the triangle or Princeton offenses. Iso ball with rules preventing tough defense exist. Defenses are more intricate because players cant guard their own man. Even coach K at Duke had to play zone because his 4 freshmen weren't able to play man to man. Player's can shoot well and dribble but are not great passers, nor do they move well without the ball. Early specialization with 50+ games a year has stunted the development of today's American young players. Hence the number of young Canadiens, Aussies and Europeans in the game. Jordan had the luxury of 3 years learning under Dean Smith. Today's kids are 1 and done. As far as athleticism any PE teacher can tell you that the average youth of today isn't as fit as youth of 40 years ago. The ability to jump is just one fitness component. The early specialization and lack of fundamental movement skills contributes to all the injuries to young NBA players. Almost every rookie breaks down.
Jordan would do just fine today.
His 80’s stats are outrageously good considering he had zero talent around him and he played in an era where (i) defensive contact was allowed and (ii) 3 point shooting was not as common.
He won 6 championships when given a talented support staff. He dominated every aspect of each of those championship runs.
He would play poker all night, sleep for an hour, play 36 holes of golf, and then score 30 on Angola that evening.
Rules have changed to make one-on-one defense harder. Players are quicker off the dribble making defense harder.
Athleticism makes is harder to play good defense.
The reason these few old players can play is that they are mostly all HOF greats and are in excellent physical condition -- thanks to modern exercise science etc.
Jordan would suffer today. Exposed, i think is the term.
Harambe wrote:
His stats are eye popping but so is his usage.
Video seems to suggest defense was just NOT that athletic at all -- nor was it very well organized.
I am on the fence about him.
Look up the hand-check rule and how it changed the sport. That’s why everyone hits the 3 or drives for an easy layup.
Look up other defensive rules changed (zone, no charging under the basket)
Alan
Oh really??? wrote:
theJeff wrote:
Why not? Because he is white?
Are you really going with, "John Stockton is not recognized as best NBA player ever just because he's white?" Larry Bird and Kevin McHale are white. Everyone who knows anything about basketball recognize the greatness of Kevin McHale and Larry Bird. Stockton is a Hall of Fame athlete. Stockton was definitely better than average. There was no need to say Jordan is not great because Stockton is really great. You do know: most NBA owners are white. You do know: most NBA fans are white. You do know: most in media covering NBA are white. There is no BLM conspiracy against John Stockton.
John Stockton, the All Time Leader in Steals and Assists, "was definitely better than average". Thanks for supporting my point.
Are you really that dense the Jeff? Stating Stockton was better than average does not support your point that Stockton has been slighted for his skin color.
Amazing but he got EVERY call
It's a safe rule of thumb that nothing before you were born was any good. It's called adolescence.
Stockton is more athletic than people give him credit for being. He was very quick when younger. People remember Stockton from the NBA Finals when he was in his mid-30s. In the late 80s, he was one of the quickest guards in the NBA.
MeHereYouWhere?! wrote:
Ben L Wrong wrote:
He competed against Detroit Pistons bad boys and Pat Riley's New York...for example. Teams plagued with solid defensive players, including the stars. And the rules were different, allowing more physical punishment. Now you play against teams running and gunning, plagued with reliable shooters, and stars like Harden, Melo, Westbrook, Steph Curry, with below the average defense.
Could you imagine a defensive front line like the Bad Boys era (Mahorn, Laimbeer, Rodman, Salley) and in Detroit or the Knicks with Oakley, Mason and Ewing in today's game?! Ha!
exactly-people need to watch the NBA of old-sure players are more athletic now, but you have to appreciate Jordan's production in play which was much more physical in the lane---as mentioned you had to go through the Bad Boys and the Knicks most years before you got to the Finals-not like the East now....