Have road racing hobbyists become more aggressive / cutthroat during the races?

I call it crabbing. Happened to me at a recent 5k, cut in front of me and then slowed. I think some people just have no idea about visual spacial awareness, some are stupid and some are rude. I ran a HM in the fall, and spat on the side of the road, a guy about 4 yards in front of me shouted '...watch the spitting...'. I shouted back '...shut your hole...'. Some people are just special.

kg fyfgkgig wrote:

I call it crabbing. Happened to me at a recent 5k, cut in front of me and then slowed. I think some people just have no idea about visual spacial awareness, some are stupid and some are rude. I ran a HM in the fall, and spat on the side of the road, a guy about 4 yards in front of me shouted '...watch the spitting...'. I shouted back '...shut your hole...'. Some people are just special.

^^^ Agreeed. Some people really THINK they are special... Idiots. Saw it, too yesterday.

I was in the same group, aiming for 2:45 and had the exact same thoughts as you. Especially in the first km.

I think if you run in a race with a 30000 participants, you can not really complain about it being crowded and not having very much free space in front of you all the time.

I ran Berlin yesterday and Chicago last year, both around 3 hours. Berlin was on another level in terms of pack density. Chicago got comfortable after a few miles while Berlin never was. Water stations were a zoo and people were periodically either cutting me off to move up or slowing down causing me to go around them.

Interesting to hear it was also bad at 2:45. Berlin just had so much more depth at the front apparently. I was trying to figure out why and one stat I saw is Berlin is 70% male versus Chicago at 50%. Perhaps marathons aren’t as popular amongst the more casual runners (as in 4+ hours) as it is in the states?

Because nobody told them they're not really good. Instead in running, running 40 to 50 minutes behind the winner is considered to be "winning." This is equivalent of fats guys playing weekend softball games while drunk at the park.

Partridge wrote:

I think if you run in a race with a 30000 participants, you can not really complain about it being crowded and not having very much free space in front of you all the time.

This is key. It's a bit narcissistic to call the other hobbyists cutthroat assuming there's some underlying malicious intent. The race was crowded, people are excited/anxious, and can have poor spacial awareness (that's why their hobby is running!). It has nothing to do with being rude, cutthroat or aggressive. It's just a reflection of the circumstances. It's a crowded world.

Berlin runner wrote:

I ran Berlin yesterday and Chicago last year, both around 3 hours. Berlin was on another level in terms of pack density. Chicago got comfortable after a few miles while Berlin never was. Water stations were a zoo and people were periodically either cutting me off to move up or slowing down causing me to go around them.

Interesting to hear it was also bad at 2:45. Berlin just had so much more depth at the front apparently. I was trying to figure out why and one stat I saw is Berlin is 70% male versus Chicago at 50%. Perhaps marathons aren’t as popular amongst the more casual runners (as in 4+ hours) as it is in the states?

Course congestion ruined the London’s marathon for a few friends of mine. They were sub-3 runners and found the conversion quite stressful and did effect times. But they both still really enjoyed the experience. I think you have to resign yourself to the fact it’s going to busy and just get on with it.

I’d love to see staggered starts, at least to thin the start out a little bit. A few smaller races I have ran do that and it makes a massive difference in terms of choke points.

It's a race. These people are trying to run faster than you, and it sounds like they're succeeding. Even a marathon is a game of seconds. A whole lot of seconds.

People keep mentioning the crowds. I've run other big marathons (Chicago, NYC, Boston, Philadelphia) in the same time group, and all of them were crowded for at least part of the time. In none of those races did I see or experience runners behaving as they did in Berlin.

I get that people want to run fast. But I don't think that is a justification for being classless on the course, especially when nothing is on the line other than a few seconds, at best.

Getting back to my original question ... have things changed in the past 5 years?

To answer your original question, no. I ran Boston ten years ago and had the exact same experience. The sense of entitlement on the race course is appalling. Runners acting like they are the only people on the course, yelling at volunteers, cutting off other runners, pushing their way through aid stations, cutting corners with no regard to other runners already on that line. Those people probably act the same way when they drive. People suck.

Big marathons suck wrote:

... Those people probably act the same way when they drive. People suck.

That's exactly what I was thinking.

Obviously, this stuff happens. I think it might be worse in Germany, since the krauts generally have a much smaller personal space bubble than Americans and Brits. They also take their hobbies seriously.

A lot of people in a small space in a timed race.

People bump into each other.

armchair sociologist wrote:

Obviously, this stuff happens. I think it might be worse in Germany, since the krauts generally have a much smaller personal space bubble than Americans and Brits. They also take their hobbies seriously.

Yeah. Thanks for sharing your racist terminology. Idiot.

Scum bag wrote:

armchair sociologist wrote:

Obviously, this stuff happens. I think it might be worse in Germany, since the krauts generally have a much smaller personal space bubble than Americans and Brits. They also take their hobbies seriously.

Yeah. Thanks for sharing your racist terminology. Idiot.

What's the matter with what he said?

As far as people trying to stay on the blue line. That may be a phenomena of recent years. I think casual runners are starting to hear more about the route markings and are damned well going to be running the shortest course. They may get edgy if they get moved from their spot and do whatever to get back on the line. Sometimes that would actually work against them. If they were displaced to the right of the line and the next curve or turn was to the right, they should stay put, otherwise they're putting in a couple strides the wrong way.

If I were within 50 minutes of Kipchoge, I'd be freaking impressed with myself too.

armchair sociologist wrote:

Obviously, this stuff happens. I think it might be worse in Germany, since the krauts generally have a much smaller personal space bubble than Americans and Brits. They also take their hobbies seriously.

Berlin is an international marathon. OP mentioned running about 2:45. A quick view at the time frame from 2:40-2:50 showed just 16% Germans (1 in 6) but many more Americans, Brits, Australian...

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