marathon long run idea..

I think you're probably right Joe- was thinking to myself that during the race I probably won't want to think about doing a long cool down

topic rejector wrote:

I do not wish to discuss marathon long run ideas.

Instead, let's talk about our favorite Christmas movies.

1. Home Alone

2. A Christmas Story

3. Christmas Vacation

4. A Charlie Brown Christmas

5. Evergreen (a Hallmark Christmas movie, check it out. You'll never guess how it ends!)

Are you one of those elitist x-mas movie people that doesn't think Die Hard is a Christmas movie?

Joseph McVeigh wrote:

Rather than 5-10-5, consider doing a 10 mile warm-up for the 10mile race.

8 mi warmup increasing pace up t oMP

10 mi MP

2 mi cool down

I have done versions of this at local races, and wouldn't want to make the cool-down after more than 2-3 mi.

What you describe would, I think, be somewhat more stressful than a usual 20 miler, because you'd have 10 miles at.....10-mile race pace sandwiched in the middle of two easy runs. When I ran a 2:53, many years ago, I remember running a 10-miler in Central Park at just under one hour at some point in the training cycle. Call it 6:00 pace. I did long warmups in those days, so I'm sure I ran 5 easy beforehand, and I'm sure I ran at least 3 afterwards. I was shooting for 6:30 pace in the race, to run 2:50 and qualify for Boston. (That was the Q time back then.)

In the marathon, I felt so good at 10 miles that I sped up from 6:30 to 6:15 pace for a few miles. That put me over the edge. I held on for a 2:53:30, which was a 7 minute PR, but missed my goal.

I was young and strong, and I don't suppose the 10-miler hurt me. It felt more like a hard tempo run than an all-out race. 10-mile race pace isn't particularly helpful to what you're trying to achieve in a marathon, which is training your body to burn fat and training it not to burn through glycogen too quickly at race pace. Those things are helped by long slow runs (fat burning) and marathon pace runs. Some half marathon pace stuff is OK, too, but it's a bad idea--in my experience--to run a hard half marathon three or four weeks before a marathon. I set a HM PR like that once, but was stale for my goal race.

So: if you're 6-8 weeks out from your marathon, doing what you suggest, and not running the 10-miler all-out, is probably fine. 3-4 weeks out: bad idea.

When I wrote "I was shooting for 6:30 pace in the race," I'm talking about the goal marathon, not the 10-miler. In the 10-miler, I just ran the fastest comfortable pace--right at threshold, I'd bet. That was 6:00 pace for me. I was regularly running 10Ks at 5:45-5:50 pace back then.

Well thanks for explaining what the actual issue was. If it's stress, your idea will lead to more stress than just a normal long run.

psychological, not physical mon ami hence why I thought crowds for the race would help to push me onward

Not a bad idea, I break long runs in my head as 3 sets of 10k where the first 10k is easy, second 10k more moderate and last 10k go as fast as I can. Yes, I end up running 30k no matter what I think. But, mentally I think of it as 3 sets of 10.

I don't recommend planning a 5 mile cooldown after a 10 mile race.

I once warmed up something like 5+ miles before a 10 mile race hoping to get in some extra miles and then to just run the 10 miler at a fast clip. I felt slower than I expected during the 10 miler and afterward I was pretty tired.

I recommend that you simply use the 10 miler as the last 10 miles of your run, don't try to do it too quickly, and just enjoy all the on course support (aid stations) and excitement to make it an easier than normal long run. If 18-20 is your goal, run 8-10 before the 10 miler.

How about if you do a 5 warmup to your 15 mile long run?

blatter wrote:

How about if you do a 5 warmup to your 15 mile long run?

Reminds me of this post:

Can you tell me a bit about your training back then?

TS: I ran seven days a week, and averaged a marathon a day in distance. There were no days off.

What was the furthest you ever covered in a day if 26-miles was normal?

TS: One morning I warmed up with 10-kilometers, then after I went for a long run, and I did 88km (55-miles). I can run forever once I start.

Use positive affirmations during your runs. "I will go the full distance...One more mile...I can do this." etc. Also the idea about having someone drop you off IS actually a good idea, so is an out and back. Also, just realize that you are capable, you just can't let yourself say "I've had enough." That's not what the marathon is about. It's about continuing through the pain.

Canada Girl wrote:

I think it’s a good idea. A couple of times I have done a six or 7 mile run before a half marathon; if the race starts on time, you can time it perfectly so that you don’t even break stride. Plus, you don’t have to carry water because there will be aid stations at the race. I would do my long runs this way more often, except it’s too expensive.

Bandit?

jobbyjogger wrote:

Having trouble getting up over 15-16 miles by myself on my long runs

what if I did 5 miles as a warm up for a 10 mile road race, then race that road race and did a 5 mile cool down almost immediately after finishing? would I still get the same benefits as doing a pretty unbroken 20? or atleast SOME benefits, any advice you guys can offer. I know that if I do it this way the crowd for the road race will help keep me going.

Tough plan IMO.

Your warm up will be too fast and too long for a race warm up but too slow for any training benefit. Then you will either stand around for 20 minutes and get cold or miss the start by 3 minutes and have to weave through fatties. By mile 7 of the race you'll be gassed and slogging along. After the race you will be disappointed in you race time and really tired which will turn your 5 mile cool down into a 2.3 pity plod.

Ie- you just ran a non-continuous 17.3 mile run with broken pacing that leaves you exhausted without any specific training benefit.

Option B- arrange for a friend or family member to bike the last 10 miles of a 20 miler with you. I've done it, the pros do it, its relatively easy to arrange, it helps with hydration, boredom, pacing, and saves you $25.

Dude just sack up and run 20 miles, it shouldn't be that hard. How do you plan to run your marathon if you can't do a long run?

Why don't you just get a running partner for long runs? Much easier with company.

Not an original idea but a good one. We did this all the time. In fact I don't think I ever ran a half marathon without it being used as a training run