Thoughts on Mondo’s AMERICAN pole vault record?

RULE 261

NATIONAL RECORDS

1. There shall be six (6) categories of national records as follows:

(a) An American Record, which shall be the best performance made by an American

citizen or relay team composed entirely of U.S. citizens in an athletics event held

within the United States or abroad.

PV coach2 wrote:

PV coach wrote:

I am personally taking a little joy and Jeff Hartwig losing his record. The guys too much of a prick and I'm surprised Gill Sports Cleveland hired someone like that. Disappointed in David Hodge.

To be fair, Greg is too. No idea about Mondo, he's just a kid.

Pole Vaulters are a close group. I have seen Mondo getting support from all of them. If your all alone it's because your either getting in the zone or your the prick. When Greg is coaching it's all business to him. After the event is over he is a different person. Happy to talk to anyone. Where do you work? Imagine everyone crowding around you trying to get a piece of you. If your not doing your job when you should be your fired.

What if someone breaks an AJR before they ever represent the USA internationally? Then they choose to represent France due to dual citizenship. Does that record stand?

Harambe wrote:

What if someone breaks an AJR before they ever represent the USA internationally? Then they choose to represent France due to dual citizenship. Does that record stand?

Yes.

Tracktown Troll Trolley wrote:

BBC analyst Tony Minichello babbling on about Duplantis now being the second highest vaulter ever, "after Sergey Bubka," somehow forgetting Lavellinie actually holds the WR (and who was in the competition,) along with Steve Hooker, Maksim Tarasov and Dmitri Markov.

Isn't there a distinction between the indoor and outdoor WR?

zerer wrote:

Tracktown Troll Trolley wrote:

BBC analyst Tony Minichello babbling on about Duplantis now being the second highest vaulter ever, "after Sergey Bubka," somehow forgetting Lavellinie actually holds the WR (and who was in the competition,) along with Steve Hooker, Maksim Tarasov and Dmitri Markov.

Isn't there a distinction between the indoor and outdoor WR?

This brings to mind a question I have. If bad weather forces the pole vault indoors during an outdoor meet, where would the broken records get recorded? Do they put an asterisk next to it? It seems the event record will be recorded as is.

I'm curious where you live.

Star wrote:

That's tricky.

American father. Swedish mother.

Maintains dual citizenship.

Looks like he was born and raised in the US.

He chose to compete for Sweden.

I think an American Record should require that the athlete represents the US.

Bernard Lagat became a US citizen in 2004 and ran 3:27 that year but that time is not the American Record. He competed for Kenya in the Olympics that year.

Lagat's 3:29.30 that he ran in 2005 after he announced he would compete for the US and not Kenya is the ratified American Record for the 1500m.

Looks like the fact that Lagat chose to compete for Kenya the year he ran 3:27 was why the performance was not ratified as a US record, although it was eligible. Basically, in 2004, Lagat was saying he's a Kenyan.

Not really comparable to Mondo as he's been an American/Swedish national his entire life. He has never changed citizenship. Don't really see why the need for a national team requirement. Mondo is a US citizen AND he set the record. What if Mondo had set the record in a Diamond League meet where he was not representing either country? Is it an American record or not? Is it an American record if it says "Nike" on his jersey but not if it says "Sweden"? Bear in mind that Mondo is an American citizen regardless of what it says on his shirt.

2:18 wrote:

zerer wrote:

Isn't there a distinction between the indoor and outdoor WR?

This brings to mind a question I have. If bad weather forces the pole vault indoors during an outdoor meet, where would the broken records get recorded? Do they put an asterisk next to it? It seems the event record will be recorded as is.

The IAAF keeps indoor records and records. They got rid of outdoor records. In the men's pole vault, the indoor record is the highest mark, so it is the overall record and the indoor record. I think it is stupid, personally.

Star wrote:

For an American Record to be ratified doesn’t there need to be a drug test within 48 hours or so?

If so, and Lagat didn’t have a formal drug test after his Zurich 2004 race then there is a time limit to apply for an American Record.

Didn’t that happen with a women’s steeple Record that wasn’t ratified because of this clause?

24 hours, but it is not retroactive to marks before that was a requirement. I do not think a drug test was required for a US record in 2004, so a lack of a drug test at that meet would not preclude him getting the record.

But yes, Coburn failed to have a mark ratified a few years ago for no drug test because now that is a requirement.

PV coach wrote:

I am personally taking a little joy and Jeff Hartwig losing his record. The guys too much of a prick and I'm surprised Gill Sports Cleveland hired someone like that. Disappointed in David Hodge.

Jeff Hartwig still has the indoor US record, and he lost the outdoor record years ago when Brad Walker broke it. Sorry to burst your bubble.

verrrryyyyy interesting wrote:

Not allowed to compete wrote:

The USATF could have ratified any of Lagat's runs after May 2004 as ARs but they decided not to at a meeting in 2005.

"The U.S. does allow dual citizenship and consequently races run by Lagat after May 7, 2004 could have been ratified as American records, since USATF rules only state that an athlete has to be a U.S. citizen competing in a sanctioned competition to be eligible to set a national record. However, at the 2005 USATF annual meeting, his 3:27.40 win in the 1500 meters, on August 6, 2004, in Zurich, was not ratified as an American record."

Did they cite a reason? If he met all of the requirements and they decided not to on some arbitrary basis....

Welcome to the world of the USATF. Arbitrary decisions are par for their short-bus courses.

This Lagat "decision" is similar in arbitrariness to the PattiSue Plumer decision. PattiSue ran the first sub 15 minute 5k for women. But the USATF braintrust decreed that women were incapable of breaking 15 minutes, so they took exception to her running better than 14:59.994 and rounded up to fix "the problem". That was the word on the track about her run. Two sub 15 clock readings. Stanford University has her at the proper 14:59.99.

zxcvzxcv wrote:

Lagat ran 3:27 in 2004 after citizenship came through but before he publicly declared it. If he had declared it, Kenya would have prevented him from competing in the 2004 Athens Olympics, where he battled Lagat in that fantastic final, as well as probably the 2005 World's, which Kenya did prevent him from competing at. He'd already missed the 2003 World's because Kenya dropped him from the team after the positive A test but before the B test cleared him. So, he was facing missing three straight championships. 3:27 should still be the American record.

Lagat was USATF'ed. The USATF refused to allow him to compete as an American after he became a citizen. They told him he would have to run for Kenya to compete in the 2004 Olympics. Kenya did not understand this until after the Olympics. and Kenya decided to let Lagat keep the medal he won since he was not competing for the US. An absolute clusterf*ck created by the USATF.

tlbernhard wrote:

RULE 261

NATIONAL RECORDS

1. There shall be six (6) categories of national records as follows:

(a) An American Record, which shall be the best performance made by an American

citizen or relay team composed entirely of U.S. citizens in an athletics event held

within the United States or abroad.

That is not how it worked out for USC. They set the indoor 400m relay WR running with four US citizens. But because Rai Benjamin trained as a 15 year old, for a few months, with Antigua, and he filed months before the paperwork declaring he was competing for the USA and not Antigua, the claim by the USATF was that it was not a WR. Therefore, the WR was set in the same race was set by the LOSING team.

Not allowed to compete wrote:

verrrryyyyy interesting wrote:

Did they cite a reason? If he met all of the requirements and they decided not to on some arbitrary basis....

Welcome to the world of the USATF. Arbitrary decisions are par for their short-bus courses.

This Lagat "decision" is similar in arbitrariness to the PattiSue Plumer decision. PattiSue ran the first sub 15 minute 5k for women. But the USATF braintrust decreed that women were incapable of breaking 15 minutes, so they took exception to her running better than 14:59.994 and rounded up to fix "the problem". That was the word on the track about her run. Two sub 15 clock readings. Stanford University has her at the proper 14:59.99.

Thanks for the "explanation" but they are opening themselves up to serious litigation.

Here is you answer:

https://www.iaaf.org/records/toplists/jumps/pole-vault/outdoor/men/senior/2018

Yeah the IAAF doesn't consider Duplantis as an American athlete. His dual nationality status is irrelevant, he chose to compete for one country and that's all the IAAF accepts until he decides to go through the IAAF process to represent another, such as the USA.

If the USA decides to take Duplantis' record and have it as the US record then that's up to them.

I don't agree with it because you can't represent two countries at once in this sport, but USATF is free to enforce any and all crazy rules they want.

It would be similar to Somalia trying to claim Farah's records to make themselves look good. They can do it if they want, but nobody actually thinks they are Somali records.

In athletics, Duplantis is only Swedish.

A fact that gets confused amongst many fans on this site (all the 'American born' highschool/college/senior record nonsense).

Not allowed to compete wrote:

verrrryyyyy interesting wrote:

Did they cite a reason? If he met all of the requirements and they decided not to on some arbitrary basis....

Welcome to the world of the USATF. Arbitrary decisions are par for their short-bus courses.

This Lagat "decision" is similar in arbitrariness to the PattiSue Plumer decision. PattiSue ran the first sub 15 minute 5k for women. But the USATF braintrust decreed that women were incapable of breaking 15 minutes, so they took exception to her running better than 14:59.994 and rounded up to fix "the problem". That was the word on the track about her run. Two sub 15 clock readings. Stanford University has her at the proper 14:59.99.

http://running.stanford.edu/coach.html

Thousandths are always rounded up. If a guy runs a 3:59.991, he’s not a sub 4 miler as it will be a 4:00.00. Or are you telling me that this practice started with Plummer?

ex-runner wrote:

. . . USATF is free to enforce any and all crazy rules they want.

Except, as several posts noted, they after not actual rules. They are arbitrarily rounding up times and dragging their feet on paperwork forcing athletes to lose records or compete for the wrong country.