Does the success of Jakob and Galen Rupp demonstrate that the lab-rat approach is necessary??

Fi wrote:

His older brothers were more trial and error. I think that if you do low distance-high intensity then yes. If you do almost all running below threeshold then no

Great post. The low distance//high intensity thing worries me because that's why so many of us who grew up in the 90s sucked.

I love the romantic idea of running hard when you feel good and easy when you need to run easy and racking up the miles. But without proper analysis and treadmill testing is it all a crap shoot?

jmhvh wrote:

I think so. I suspect if someone really talented like Bekele had trained this way, his WRs would be ever lasting.

Ummmmm... Bekele’s WRs have been everlasting so far.

poorteacher wrote:

That's outrageous! Principals should not have to run to school!

He didn't say that. He said the kids run to the principal.

Demonstrates being on a well-planned and well-executed PEDs plan from about 13-14 onwards makes a big difference

the best have great mentor-ship and a great environment from an early age, combined with high talent, and an enormous interest in what they do, which in sport, is to win.

look at coe, history, agassi history, bobby fischer history, gretzky, etc.

Wiwiwiqi wrote:

jmhvh wrote:

I think so. I suspect if someone really talented like Bekele had trained this way, his WRs would be ever lasting.

Ummmmm... Bekele’s WRs have been everlasting so far.

Nobody can even get within 1 second per lap of him! Not even Galen Rupp.

Equivalently it's like if every 400 runner was north of 44.03 for years on end.

Only 800+ GOAT Augustine Choge has the potential to do it, however he has already moved up to HM, where he promptly went sub 60 and will more probably run the first 2:01 than bother with 26:17.

Bad Wigins wrote:

Wiwiwiqi wrote:

Ummmmm... Bekele’s WRs have been everlasting so far.

Nobody can even get within 1 second per lap of him! Not even Galen Rupp.

Equivalently it's like if every 400 runner was north of 44.03 for years on end.

Only 800+ GOAT Augustine Choge has the potential to do it, however he has already moved up to HM, where he promptly went sub 60 and will more probably run the first 2:01 than bother with 26:17.

It's called epo, it's the magic elixir.

Sand Dunes wrote:

I prefer just run baby. Screw science.

Please read Ron Daw's The Self Made Olympian.

I think there are several elements behind Team Ingerbigsten success that are working together in harmony:

- Natural talent

- Family culture of achievement and excellence

- Knowledge of the sport

- Number of children - this plays together in a a couple of ways. If you start with a good genetic base (mom and dad), and try enough times, you will eventually get a child that is very talented. At the same time, the less talented ones play the supporting role in providing encouragement, expertise, and just someone to beat for the super-talented.

While the natural talent is something we have limited control over, other elements are much more accessible to the general public. We can do what it takes to build a family and have the children. We can study the sport. We can work to build a culture of achievement in our family. The Ingebrigtsens are showing us that this can be done - even in Europe, where most people are not having many children, and do not focus on building strong families in general.

The value of a strong family culture, of course, goes far beyond running or achievement in general. It is much deeper. High achievement is just an easy to measure indicator that hopefully will help us remember and appreciate those deeper eternal principles.

Can't wait to see what NIKE revises in Jakob's contract.. $35k base has been a steal and now with the $50,000 performance bonus in each of the 1500 and 5000m from Euro Champs, the base has triggered to over six figures.

Resources & opportunity matter immensely. If one has all of the above and is raised without opportunity, the talent doesn't matter.

Hayduke wrote:

hart crane wrote:

Every video I've seen of Jakob training looks so methodical and scientific. Clearly this approach began when he was 10 years old or so.

Is the lab-rat training approach a necessary evil for success? Are the days of running by feel and grinding miles out on dirt roads over? Is distance running now another sport that requires money and resources for success?

it suggests that starting very early is the key. this appears to be true of all sports. when did tiger woods start? the whole running to school principal in effect.

OMG, I have been triggered.

Being active is important, but I think that playing a variety of sports when young is key. Yes, Tiger started early, but that creates lots of problems. Tiger survived although I think it screwed him up emotionally. Also, how many dads (or moms) tried to replicate this and it failed? I would say almost all. You see the successes, not the utter failures.

I know little of Jakob's and his brothers training, but I bet they did a lot of activities before settling into track. (It is the Norway way).

Surely Rupp proves the lab rat approach doesn't guarantee success?

While the 2 older brothers did do many sports before deciding on track, Jakob only skied for a while and then switched to running. Both the Dad & older brothers have long felt that Jakob was going to be the best, they just didn't expect it to happen so soon. Apparently their younger sister is super eager to get running, but their Dad doesn't feel he knows enough yet to train her.

wiz khalifa wrote:

just run baby

^This. Shorter and Rodgers were far more successful than Rupp will ever be. We need to get back to how they trained.

hart crane wrote:

Every video I've seen of Jakob training looks so methodical and scientific. Clearly this approach began when he was 10 years old or so.

Is the lab-rat training approach a necessary evil for success? Are the days of running by feel and grinding miles out on dirt roads over? Is distance running now another sport that requires money and resources for success?

Its just treshold training, just measuring the lactate levels to make sure they don't train too hard. Its pretty common in Scandinavia to do this, even for people on a local level.

Runnergrl wrote:

I would say yes. To be the best in the world you are going to need a lot $$$ besides the obvious a really good coach. I don’t think we will go back to how we trained elite athletes 20 or 30 years ago.

Wrong again. The ingebritsens have not used a lot of money. Actually they have struggled to get sponsors until the last two years.

Luv2Run wrote:

Hayduke wrote:

it suggests that starting very early is the key. this appears to be true of all sports. when did tiger woods start? the whole running to school principal in effect.

OMG, I have been triggered.

Being active is important, but I think that playing a variety of sports when young is key. Yes, Tiger started early, but that creates lots of problems. Tiger survived although I think it screwed him up emotionally. Also, how many dads (or moms) tried to replicate this and it failed? I would say almost all. You see the successes, not the utter failures.

I know little of Jakob's and his brothers training, but I bet they did a lot of activities before settling into track. (It is the Norway way).

Henrik and Filip did cross country skiing, Jakob did not. Wasn't interested and wanted to be like, and be better than, his older brothers.

Luv2Run wrote:

Hayduke wrote:

it suggests that starting very early is the key. this appears to be true of all sports. when did tiger woods start? the whole running to school principal in effect.

OMG, I have been triggered.

Being active is important, but I think that playing a variety of sports when young is key. Yes, Tiger started early, but that creates lots of problems. Tiger survived although I think it screwed him up emotionally. Also, how many dads (or moms) tried to replicate this and it failed? I would say almost all. You see the successes, not the utter failures.

I know little of Jakob's and his brothers training, but I bet they did a lot of activities before settling into track. (It is the Norway way).

no but i bet rek, ex and renato all somehow have vital insider info on the boys....blood values, stool samples, hematocrit levels, Fe levels, their grinder status updates, how much they would be willing to pay for tea, and what side of the kara goucher/ al sal saga they are on.