dead legs
dead legs
Another giver of +1 wrote:
SUPERIOR COACH JS wrote:
Same if we take the more known example Yuki Kawauchi. He just run singles and still have run 2.08 .
Yuki runs singles but is not an example of a low mileage runner.
I didn`t write that either. He is more like the medium mileage guys, in singles.
Running is like any other skill, the more you practice it the more efficient you become. So high mileage has a positive effect on running economy.
Alan
Food for thought.... wrote:
It's always interesting how the 'mileage is king' brigade always say that the runners who were successful on lower mileage schedules would have improved with more. 'Imagine what he'd have run if he'd have trained properly' etc. Surely that can just as easily be turned around? Maybe the 120-150 mpw guys would have run faster if they'd have cut their volume down to 70 mpw but trained faster with more sessions? Was Shorter as good as he was because of his mileage or despite it?
There also seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding that the only way to to stress the aerobic system is with longer, slower runs. 6x1000m @ 10-15k pace with 800m jog recovery is a very aerobic session and also more specific to race pace.
I think that was a very good thought! ( and I assure you I am not "Food for thought" ). I think, or we can say I`m convinced
, that the high mileage brigade 120-150 mpw had been faster on less mileage with their `exact` best individual paces . That we can never know because they didn`t try it out.
While I do agree some runners boasting of extreme mileage can't be good for many, and probably can really mess yourself up from if not approached carefully..but..
The guy you cited is a genetic outlier, It's a crazy story but I am sure that he accounts for like .02% of elite runners
Low Mileage wrote:
High mileage is overrated unless you are specializing in the marathon. Too many garbage or junk miles thrown in that mean very little.
You're wrong.
Doug Padilla, a very talented runner
Correct. You try his program and see if you can break 15 or not.
In the case of Doug Padilla, when Doug did increase his mileage into the 50+ range or even a little bit higher he always ended up injured.
No . He ran up to 70 in winter regularly. I think tinman has stated this numerous times, both on this forum and others.
In fact, i'm pretty sure there's a schedule somewhere. i'll look for it.
OBN:
Somebody asked about Doug Padilla's training the other day, and I dug this up.
Fall training:
M. a.m. 3-5 miles easy
p.m. 5-10 miles@ 5:45-6:00 pace.
T. a.m. 3-5 miles easy
p.m. mountain running, 4-6 miles uphill run
W. a.m. 3-5 miles easy
p.m. 1-2 x 800@ 2:20-2:30, 5-6 miles easy
Th. a.m. 3-5 miles easy
p.m. mountain running
F. a.m. 3-5 miles easy
p.m. 1-2 x 800@ 2:20-2:30, 5 or 6 miles fartlek or single line passing.
S. a.m. long easy run
p.m. long easy run (up to 17 miles for the day)
S. Rest.
Here it is.
+10...love it
AerobicMonster wrote:
OBN:
Somebody asked about Doug Padilla's training the other day, and I dug this up.
Fall training:
M. a.m. 3-5 miles easy
p.m. 5-10 miles@ 5:45-6:00 pace.
T. a.m. 3-5 miles easy
p.m. mountain running, 4-6 miles uphill run
W. a.m. 3-5 miles easy
p.m. 1-2 x 800@ 2:20-2:30, 5-6 miles easy
Th. a.m. 3-5 miles easy
p.m. mountain running
F. a.m. 3-5 miles easy
p.m. 1-2 x 800@ 2:20-2:30, 5 or 6 miles fartlek or single line passing.
S. a.m. long easy run
p.m. long easy run (up to 17 miles for the day)
S. Rest.
Here it is.
Add another 2-3 miles for warm ups and cool downs, and that would about 100 miles. Not high mileage, pretty moderate. What I would suspect.
Many ways to skin a cat
Old topic wrote:
Many ways to skin a cat
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=907089
Very important note from nobby, quote:
"Training, or evaluation of training, should always be looked at as a line, or a flow, not a point (of time). Some well-known physiologist posted the weekly training of Herb Elliot and claimed he only trained 30 miles a week. Well, that was his typical trainig week during the racing season when he didn't train much. He was running up and down the sand dune more like 80 to 90 miles a week months before the season began."
This is a very important note. Steve Ovett is another example, he ran 100+ miles during the winter. But, if you looked at his mileage during track season it was less than 50 miles per week. If you only looked at his training during track season one would conclude that you don't need that much mileage. But if you looked at the whole picture you would conclude you do need to run moderate amount to high amount of mileage. It is like a painting, stand to close you won't understand that little bit of the painting. You must step back to look at the whole painting to understand that little bit you were looking at.
talent actually matters most wrote:[/b
talent applies to your kid.
i ran those times on 25 miles a week and never ran more than 5 miles once in high school. never heard of a tempo run until college. ran 49 splits and 1:54 800m and 16:00 in XC. only ran 2 seasons. trained doing clyde hart workouts and could run 23 in the 200.
all talent.
All the olympians/elites (the actual talented guys) I’ve met are all very humble, down to earth guys. Clearly you are an out of shape idiot who rambles on the internet talking about your fantasies. Go somewhere else.
Ok! I am convicted I will start some doubles I swear!!!
Haha wrote:
talent actually matters most wrote:[/b
talent applies to your kid.
i ran those times on 25 miles a week and never ran more than 5 miles once in high school. never heard of a tempo run until college. ran 49 splits and 1:54 800m and 16:00 in XC. only ran 2 seasons. trained doing clyde hart workouts and could run 23 in the 200.
all talent.
All the olympians/elites (the actual talented guys) I’ve met are all very humble, down to earth guys. Clearly you are an out of shape idiot who rambles on the internet talking about your fantasies. Go somewhere else.
true, i am out of shape now because i don't run more than 1-2 times a week these days.
what pros have you met that are down to earth guys?
seriously, i had no idea what a tempo was until running in college and my cross country/track coach was a sprinter when he ran in college, so we ran sprints
SO aggressive.
I am not kidding.
mousey mousekewitz wrote:
SO aggressive.
I am not kidding.
So, you don’t want to race? I am shocked.
High_Meterage wrote:
Low mileage 1500 training 3:29.77
High mileage 10k training 3:28.81
AerobicMonster wrote:
Low Mileage wrote:
High mileage is overrated unless you are specializing in the marathon. Too many garbage or junk miles thrown in that mean very little.
You're wrong.
Doug Padilla, a very talented runner
Correct. You try his program and see if you can break 15 or not.
In the case of Doug Padilla, when Doug did increase his mileage into the 50+ range or even a little bit higher he always ended up injured.
No . He ran up to 70 in winter regularly. I think tinman has stated this numerous times, both on this forum and others.
In fact, i'm pretty sure there's a schedule somewhere. i'll look for it.
I was there.
I did break 15 quite easily but couldn't break 14. I did however run more miles especially in the morning.
In the winter, Doug was busy with the indoor season which he excelled at. He was not logging 70 miles a week, ever as he was racing a lot. He also took time off after the European track season was over. He would run but very little and very slowly. Doug was also out of shape in October, November, and early December when he started up his training. I remember running a mile time trial indoors in Provo in early December. I was ahead of Doug, as were many others, with 200m to go thinking that I was actually going to beat him. Then....whoosh......there he goes zipping by me as if I was standing still.
GBohannon wrote:
mousey mousekewitz wrote:
SO aggressive.
I am not kidding.
So, you don’t want to race? I am shocked.
I'm not training for any racing since I had kids, BROhannon. not important to me. I was a mid distance guy anyway like I said, and the half marathon / marathon training was never interesting to me. Running 5k-42k pace just wasn't that fun for me.
Let's say you won the marathon challenge race you suggested. Congrats and good luck on being a mid 2:20's runner. That's really fast but, unfortunately, it's right there in no-mans land and pretty much means nothing to anyone but other Letsrunners. Way above average, but slower than elites or the possibility of a career as a runner...
I'll happily challenge you to a 800m or shorter race and "destroy you"though if you'd like to keep the challenge alive.
mousey mousekewitz wrote:
GBohannon wrote:
So, you don’t want to race? I am shocked.
I'm not training for any racing since I had kids, BROhannon. not important to me. I was a mid distance guy anyway like I said, and the half marathon / marathon training was never interesting to me. Running 5k-42k pace just wasn't that fun for me.
Let's say you won the marathon challenge race you suggested. Congrats and good luck on being a mid 2:20's runner. That's really fast but, unfortunately, it's right there in no-mans land and pretty much means nothing to anyone but other Letsrunners. Way above average, but slower than elites or the possibility of a career as a runner...
I'll happily challenge you to a 800m or shorter race and "destroy you"though if you'd like to keep the challenge alive.
I appreciate the semi-lighthearted response as I was being over the top on purpose (I assume that was clear). 800m? If you are near Michigan, I could be talked into that. Full disclosure - I regularly split sub 2:00 in HS (never ran the open, but did lead off the relay) and will train hard for speed if we set this up, so you will need to be at least somewhat fit if you plan to destroy me. Granted, I won’t touch 48/1:51, but expect a 1:57ish type challenger.
Long story short, mileage is king,