1500m WR is now 20 years old!

Please, find the posts that show I said I doped and post them here. I don't want what to hear what you think I said.

Again, if I doped I'd know far more about doping than you or anyone here could ever pretend to know. It would only be in my benefit to say I had doped. I'm not old and afraid of the internet, there is no way anyone can determine my identity.

1:41.7 10th Jun 1981 WR

3:31.9 7th Jul 1981 (WR was 3:31.4)

2:12.28 11th Jul 1981 WR

3:48.5. 19th Aug 1981 WR

3:47.3 28th Aug 1981 WR

Subway Surfers wrote:

ex-runner wrote:

1:41.7 10th Jun 1981 WR

3:31.9 7th Jul 1981 (WR was 3:31.4)

2:12.28 11th Jul 1981 WR

3:48.5. 19th Aug 1981 WR

3:47.3 28th Aug 1981 WR

So was he on epo? Not likely. So was he conducting autologous blood transfusions? But I know of no evidence of them benefiting after 78 days and this doesn't include a reinfusion day a couple days before June 10th, 1981 (so at least 80 days). We can't rule anything out but I have said numerous times on here if Coe was on anything it would have been steroids and pain killers (anti inflams). Coe was terrible over any event longer than one mile.

It wasn't illegal to use blood transfusions in 1981. There wasn't just an absence of testing, it wasn't banned. It was widely known that cyclists were using blood transfusions at the time.

The argument would be that he used a blood transfusion before the 10th June 1981 then topped up after the 11th July in time for his attempts on the mile in August.

I don't particularly care but its just funny when people make statements such as, 'only dopers can run close to the world record every race' or 'it seems unlikely that all the best runners were running in the same era' when talking about the best Africans doping.

It's like they completely forget that Coe, Ovett, Cram, Moorcroft were all running in the same era, born a few years apart and we haven't seen anything like it since; 1:41, 3:29, 3:46 for the mile and 13:00 for 5k. If the UK still had those guys we'd be challenging the Kenyans no problem.

Or they completely forget that Coe and Ovett tried to break each others' world records every race and Coe had an astonishing streak of 4 world records in a little under 2 months, being the first under 1:42 and under 3:48. Nothing like it has been seen since. Those times would be astonishing even today, it's not like the Finnish world records.

I don't think that is evidence of doping personally, it's just funny that people that think one 'pattern' is evidence of doping deny that the same pattern is evidence of doping when applied to their favourites. Makes me laugh.

ezezae wrote:

Who won the Tour de France 20 years ago?

An amazing bike rider, may he rest in peace.

Nice reply (twice with the same list) by ex-runner.

ElG running a bunch of fast times proves he's a doper and the same people think Coe, who ran a bunch of fast times isn't a doper.

I am saying they are all dopers, including today's runners.

Ramzi was a proven doper but he didn't break the world record.

Kiprop has been popped, but he didn't break the world record.

Makhoufi is questionable. Centro was coached by Salazar, won Gold and hasn't even broken 3:30

Why didn't they break the record? My response is that they didn't try.

Ramzi didn't race much but he was on high juice for championships.

Makh had to be on something in London but didn't have many fast times.

Kiprop did go for it more than most and did run 3:26.

Maybe El G could get past tests better than they can now but the athletes are always ahead of the testers.

In 1988 and Ben ran 9.79, people though testing caught up but Greene eventually ran 9.79.

In 2003 the Balco scandal seemingly changed things but there have been 29 times 9.79 has been bettered since Balco.

And look what Bekele has done to the records since then. And then there are the marathon performances.

Farah simply doesn't go for fast times. It doesn't mean he is clean.

So why has the 1500 record lasted so long?

El G was great and he ran his best time early in his career.

I do not think he was more doped. He was more determined to run fast times than how anyone approaches distances on the track these days.

Of course this is going to occur when people have emotional ties to their sports heros. They draw the line in the sand where you dare don't suspect their heros of any wrongdoing, but they can accuse the other side's heros of wrongdoing. When I first saw the user name "Coevett" that said it all - I knew there were emotional ties to these two athletes with the poster. Imagine on an NFL forum if I went by "BradyGronk." What would that tell you? It means don't suspect my guys of any wrongdoing!

ex-runner wrote:

1:41.7 10th Jun 1981 WR

3:31.9 7th Jul 1981 (WR was 3:31.4)

2:12.28 11th Jul 1981 WR

3:48.5. 19th Aug 1981 WR

3:47.3 28th Aug 1981 WR[/quote]

That is over an entire season, something like 12 weeks. He had a lot of slow and tactical races amongst those. ElG was fast times every time he ran.

We haven't seen those times like it because participation in running declined rapidly after, actually even during their era. The reason why Andy Norman and ITV bribed Ovett to take on Coe in the 1989 AAA when he was shell of his former self and he knew it would be an embarrassment was because viewing figures and attendences were already on the decline.

There is no explanation for the decline of African times (which, btw is a much bigger sample than 4 British runners) over the last 20 years other than EPO testing. The population of Kenya has more than doubled in that period, Morocco almost as much. Also, most people accept that the British golden trio was a bit of a fluke that happens once in a while, whereas people point to the likes of El G, Bekele, Komen, Lagat as a 'pattern' of inevitable African natural dominance.

Oh yeah, El G would have 'gone to the roads' and become the world marathon record holder if he had been around today. The marathon is dominated by Moroccans these days, all chasing the money.

Also, I give up in trying to explain this concept to you, but there have been 61 doping busts despite abysmal and corrupt doping standards in Kenya recently, including the biggest 1500 name and three other Kenyan born Olympic champions.

Your argument is - Africans have the opportunity to cheat now, so they cheat (maybe), and Brits supposedly had the opportunity to cheat so they cheated (if Africans today cheat).

Everybody cheats given an opportunity + I competed in British Milers Meeting + there was the opportunity to cheat at them = I doped.

Subway Surfers has also alluded to competing at a high level in middle-distance, and he also thinks that doping is and always has been rampant. I can't read his mind, but as I understand him (and you) the difference between the two of you is that doping and cheats appear to disgust him, whereas you seem to accept is part of the sport, and are only worried about 'racists' who think Europeans aren't as dirty as Africans today and in the EPO era.

I'm sorry, but your example of Coe running 5 WR or near world record times in one season is not in the same league as what the likes of El G and Ngeny were doing 20 years later with EPO on tap.

-For a start, there is a huge difference between recovery for a fast 800 and a fast 1500m. Of those races Coe ran his fast 800m many weeks before his fast 1500/miles.

-He ran a fast 800, then had 4 weeks between his first fast 1500m. He then broke the 1000m 4 days after that.

He then had another 6 weeks to get ready for a couple of assaults at the mile. He was really disappointed after the botched pacing job in the Stockholm 1500, because he stated that it was only possible to have a few peaks in a season and that was his only attempt at that record.

Those fast 5 races were part of a season of 26 races (not including indoor). After his first WR in June, he ran 14 more times.

Now let us look at Ngeny for comparison: I couldn't find El G's list of races, so Ngeny is the 2nd best example. Let's look at his 1999 season:

13.06.1999 Villeneuve d`Ascq IAAF-Permit 1500m 3:31,12 (1.) +2,33s;

16.06.1999 Athína 1500m 3:31,32 (1.) +0,82s;

02.07.1999 Lausanne Athlétissima / GP 1500m 3:31,18 (1.) +2,72s;

07.07.1999 Roma Golden Gala / Golden League 1 Mile 3:43,40 (2.) -0,27s;

17.07.1999 Nice NIKAIA / GP 1000m 2:12,66 (1.) AR / +0,90s;

21.07.1999 Paris Gaz de France / Golden League 1500m 3:28,84 (1.) NR / +2,07s;

30.07.1999 Stockholm Dagens Nyheter Galan / GP 2000m 4:50,08 (1.) +5,12s;

04.08.1999 Monaco Herculis / Golden League 1500m 3:29,79 (1.) +0,82;

11.08.1999 Zürich Weltklasse in Zürich / Golden League 1500m 3:30,28 (2.) -1,71s;

24.08.1999 Sevilla World Championships 1500m 3:28,73 (2.) NR / -1,08s;

03.09.1999 Bruxelles Memorial Van Damme / Golden League 1500m 3:29,19 (1.) +2,90s;

05.09.1999 Rieti (ITA) Rieti Meeting 1000m 2:11,96 (1.) WR / +2,45s;

11.09.1999 München Grand Prix Final 1500m 3:28,93 (1.) +3,37s

13 races in longer distances (compared to 800m) in a season of 18; from the point he ran his first 'super fast time'. All his times over 1500m and a mile were faster than Coe's best times in 1981.

The longest 'rest' period between any two of those 13 races was 2 weeks. 5 of them occurred within just over 3 weeks!

The sheer number of fast times and close proximity between each, not to mention the ratio with only a handful of slow times, outweighs Coe's 81 season, considerably.

Coe's reflects a carefully prepared and targeted season of a few fast races interspersed evenly throughout.

Ngeny's represents a total, unfettered binge of fast times practically every time he raced. A similar pattern would be seen with El G and Lagat during this era. After 2004, who else had season's that compared in quality and quantity with Ngeny's 99 season? I can't think of anyone, not even the convicted dopers of Ramzi or Kiprop.

Lost in translanticism wrote:

Nips and tatties wrote:

Seriously Coevett, you come across as an idiot when you accuse ex-runner of that.

He constantly misrepresents peoples statements, his own statements, or flat out lies. It’s his calling card.

Agreed with you guys. It is hard to place any credibility in anything he posts or claims people have said because he constantly lies about it (i.e. conflating "what about your children" to threatening physical harm to his hypothetical kids). He doesn't believe in intellectual integrity.

Ah, participation. Now you are talking my language.

Take that idea a little further and you may have the answer to why the Brits can't produce 3:30 anymore but Kenyans can.

If EPO didn't exist we'd see far less Kenyans running 3:30, for sure. But there would be some, assuming Coe and Cram were clean. The sheer numbers of Kenyans going all in on running is really overlooked by you.

I don't think 3:26 times are possible clean (maybe if you were following someone the whole way and using less power like in a peloton), but if you believe that 3:28/3:29 times are possible clean as demonstrated by the Brits or 13:00 for 5k then you must believe that some of the likely thousands of Kenyans attempting to make it as a runner over the years must also be clean. To deny the possibility is to deny the possibility that Coe was clean.

I also really couldn't give two sh*ts as to what you think of my morality or whether you think I doped. Keep it to yourself.

Doping is wrong but I'm pragmatic enough to see reality and not live in this cottonball world in which you reside, where you think everything comes down to an 'us' and 'them' issue. Top finance guys break the law every day putting the lives of fellow Americans and Brits in jeopardy without even thinking about it. See the 2008 GLOBAL financial crisis which affected the entire world but was caused by a few greedy fat cats mostly in Wall Street. See warmongers residing in Britain and the US who sell arms to both sides in the Middle East.

Don't try and pretend the morality of Brits or Americans is higher than that of Africans overall. The opportunity is just different. The corruption is different. That's what I detest in your arguments. When you boil it down all that you are left with is 'Africans dope because it easy there, but Brits didn't dope when it was easy because we are better people than them'.

I've done a lot of travelling and in my experiences people across the world really aren't that different.

Firstly I don't think it's acceptable to post the list of races for one athlete and say 'It would be similar for another'.

Anyway in that list I'm counting only 7 races at or near World record pace. 3:30/3:31 was not near world record pace, and those races generally represent tactical affairs such as we still see today. They wouldn't have been maximal efforts for Ngeny, a man clearly capable of 3:26.

So 7 races in a little over 2 months (starting on July 7th). Compared to Coe who ran 5 in a little over 2 months. Not all that different really. There was also simply more extremely high quality races when Ngeny was running.

Also I looked up El G's 1998 season because its relatively easy to find and he has a clear peak in July/August with times being slower in June and September. El G was obviously doping but still his performances tapered off and he required a few races to build up to his peak like any ordinary athlete.

Coe ran a 1500m in 3:31.9 just outside the existing world record with what I think was a 1:46 opening 800m, the likes of which have never been seen since, ever. Most would keel over and die going through 800m that fast, not run 3:31.

By his own admission in his book he was absolutely spent after that effort but he still set a WR in the 1000m 4 days later. A time which stood for 12 years or something and still today if you run 2:12 it's superhuman, let alone on a 1981 track.

Either many fast races close together is not a good indication of doping, or Coe was doping.

When an athlete is at their absolute peak they recover well and can attack races even one day apart, running close to their personal bests on both days. If you're best is 3:30 or 3:40 it doesn't matter. I don't believe that dope makes a difference to that aspect of racing. That aspect is individual. Coe and El G chose to chase times at their peaks.

Kiprop was rubbish most of the time. Lagat only broke 3:30 once the season he ran 3:26. Rest of the time he mostly ran 3:31/3:32 or slower. Still was probably doping (positive A sample)

ex-runner wrote:

I don't think 3:26 times are possible clean .

That's just ridiculous and that's the real doping problem, believing such nonsense

spade detector wrote:

Lost in translanticism wrote:

He constantly misrepresents peoples statements, his own statements, or flat out lies. It’s his calling card.

Agreed with you guys. It is hard to place any credibility in anything he posts or claims people have said because he constantly lies about it (i.e. conflating "what about your children" to threatening physical harm to his hypothetical kids). He doesn't believe in intellectual integrity.

So an anonymous SJW threatens to beat me up (lol), doxx me, etc if I don't stop pointing out African dopers, asks me 'what about your children Coevett?' and I shouldn't see that as a threat? I tell you, it's lucky for the biatch saying these things that I don't have any children because if I had I would already have tracked him down, got on the plane, and fed him a meal of his own intestines.

So why didn't you dope? If you were a UK championship fringe player, a trip to El Doret might have been enough to get you an international vest. Are you just more moral than everybody else?

Yes, you've revealed yourself as a true SJW. I'm aware that there is kinds of corruption everywhere, but you're a leftie loon if you think a few city bankers playing with people's pensions and so on is equivalent with ordinary Kenyans having to pay bribes 10 times day which is what goes on there, and how that is an objectively real different corruption culture that impacts on individual's decisions as to whether to cheat.

Again, your 'argument' is- Kenyans cheat a lot (can't exactly be denied now) so Europeans must cheat a lot, because it would be racist to think otherwise.

spade detector wrote:

Lost in translanticism wrote:

He constantly misrepresents peoples statements, his own statements, or flat out lies. It’s his calling card.

Agreed with you guys. It is hard to place any credibility in anything he posts or claims people have said because he constantly lies about it (i.e. conflating "what about your children" to threatening physical harm to his hypothetical kids). He doesn't believe in intellectual integrity.

Yes, please stick to this username ('spade dectector'), because nips and titties really is quite rude you know. Apparently hordes of innocent children frequent these boards.

Coevett wrote:

spade detector wrote:

Agreed with you guys. It is hard to place any credibility in anything he posts or claims people have said because he constantly lies about it (i.e. conflating "what about your children" to threatening physical harm to his hypothetical kids). He doesn't believe in intellectual integrity.

So an anonymous SJW threatens to beat me up (lol), doxx me, etc if I don't stop pointing out African dopers, asks me 'what about your children Coevett?' and I shouldn't see that as a threat? I tell you, it's lucky for the biatch saying these things that I don't have any children because if I had I would already have tracked him down, got on the plane, and fed him a meal of his own intestines.

No one threatened your hypothetical children. That quote is not remotely close to a threat. Also, you're assuming those posts all came from the same person, which you have no way of knowing and is not a reasonable assumption. Further, you're lying about people threatening to beat you up if you don't stop pointing out African dopers - once again you are being intellectually dishonest. No one said that was why they wanted to kick your ass.

This is why you have no credibility man. You misrepresent statements constantly. Why?

Coevett wrote:

spade detector wrote:

Agreed with you guys. It is hard to place any credibility in anything he posts or claims people have said because he constantly lies about it (i.e. conflating "what about your children" to threatening physical harm to his hypothetical kids). He doesn't believe in intellectual integrity.

Yes, please stick to this username ('spade dectector'), because nips and titties really is quite rude you know. Apparently hordes of innocent children frequent these boards.

Here's another example of you just assuming everyone pointing out your shortcomings is the same person - not accurate and not a logical conclusion.