How come everyone likes a front runner but a sit and wait runner is "chicken s***" according to Prefontaine?
do you have any evidence that front running is, actually, "more respected," than other tactics? I doubt it. I suspect this is simply your own back-of-an-envelope estimation and it probably represents your own view, and, like most of us, you prefer to think your view is in the majority (see what I did there).
my own view is to repeat something I read right here on LRC a couple of weeks ago. in one of those interminable "let's bash Rupp" threads some level-headed dude, who I would love to be able to quote but I can't remember his name, said that the point of racing is to win. which is both true and all that needs to be said on the subject. now go out and race.
cheers.
Only neophyptes and idiots that don't know how to race think that.
Although it's nice to see great runners go for fast times of they don't have some champhionship title on the line.
Cottonshirt wrote:
do you have any evidence that front running is, actually, "more respected," than other tactics? I doubt it. I suspect this is simply your own back-of-an-envelope estimation and it probably represents your own view, and, like most of us, you prefer to think your view is in the majority (see what I did there).
my own view is to repeat something I read right here on LRC a couple of weeks ago. in one of those interminable "let's bash Rupp" threads some level-headed dude, who I would love to be able to quote but I can't remember his name, said that the point of racing is to win. which is both true and all that needs to be said on the subject. now go out and race.
cheers.
Calm down dear.
vivalarepublica wrote:
Only neophyptes and idiots that don't know how to race think that.
Although it's nice to see great runners go for fast times of they don't have some champhionship title on the line.
Nice contradiction there mate.
Because it’s hard! It takes balls to go hard from the gun. It is kinda a sissy move to run some easy laps, prevent hurting as long as you can, then out kick the people who have been pulling you along for 3/10/23 laps.
Also, I think that the margins of failure are a lot different. If you go hard from the gun, you could crash and burn, ala Jonathan cheptegui world xc in Uganda. If you fail in a sit and kick situation, you are only milliseconds behind, ala diamond league 5k final last year. The pros probably prefer to kind of almost tie then to get soundly beaten.
I don't know if it is more well respected but I do think that a wider range of racing strategies makes races more exciting. Someone like Chelimo is fun to watch in part because he is willing and able to change up his tactics.
Von Hayek wrote:
How come everyone likes a front runner but a sit and wait runner is "chicken s***" according to Prefontaine?
So brave. Asking the bold questions my friend.
People think that pro runners are lazy and just want to jog until the last lap. They think that pro runners leave a lot of effort in the tank when they sit and kick. So, the logic is then that if people front run, they are really pushing themselves and everyone else to run a solid fast race. Sit and kick is lazy. Front running is hard work.
to front run you need to be:
1 - in the best shape of everyone in the race
2- in almost the best shape in the race but the toughest
3- in almost the best shape in the race and the best kicker (if others come with you)
So, you basically have to be the best runner in the race OR make a bold move that no one expects you to hold and then get away from them and hang on
would you want to race someone in equal shape as you in a 10k and volunteer to lead the first 23 laps? NO way. not if you were in the same fitness
it's incredibly difficult. it's why pacers pace groups slower than their race time
if it was a good strategy, more people would do it more frequently.
Because it’s a smart strategy?
Von Hayek wrote:
How come everyone likes a front runner but a sit and wait runner is "chicken s***" according to Prefontaine?
This is 100 percent untrue. Most don't like runners who CONSTANTLY sit and kick.
Bekele and Geb were prime sit and kickers like most Ethiopians. That's how they run on the track, because most have great
400-800m sprint speed - Ayana being the one oddity of course. However, Geb and Bek didn't always sit and kick. There were times where they led races, and when they did sit and kick it was usually for just half of the race, and not for the entire race.
Mo and Galen sat and kicked throughout the majority of the race, because that is how they were coached to run.
I actually believe most american runners are designed to sit and kick. Look at Jenny Simpson, she sits back for most of the race and then comes on strong in the last lap.
Molly is more of a front runner. She likes to be at the top, like she was in the 2015 WC. Her mentality is to get out and just try to hold on. Shalane is more of front runner as well.
This is a solid reason we like Ritz and dislike Rupp.
Style points.
Pre won the US trials in a US record 13:22 in 1972. In the Olympics two months later, the winner ran 13:26. Pre tried to front run and faded to 4th.
To make matters worse, he surged hard with 700 to go to move from 4th back to 1st... a huge waste of energy.
A gutsy, but stupid race by Prefontaine. I respect the effort, but not the lack of discipline.
Its not all about front-running or sit-and-kick. In the 5000 m Olympics watch Viren along the rail most of race whereas Pre is everywhere between lanes 1 and 4, back and forth. Another 50 to 80 meters?
Look at NCAA Pac12 5000m final several days ago. One could ask: why did Grant Fisher wait so long to try to sprint? How were Fisher's legs going into the race? He's a little guy. We sometimes see when little guys get bumped around, they are done. With 300m to go Fisher wanted to sprint. He was boxed in then pushed around. It's easy to look at the race and ask: Why didn't Fisher run all out with app. 1500m to go? Fisher was clearly the most talented 5000m man in the field. If Fisher had fresh legs, waiting was chicken sh&t. Waiting cost Fisher a Pac12 5000m crown. Do we want to talk about S. Coe in 1980 Olympic 800m final? S. Coe passed the first 400m in app. 55 seconds. Every sub-1:47.5 800m man has a kick when the pace is that slow. When one is clearly the best and then loses in a jog and sprint race, sitting around and waiting is cowardly.
fisky wrote:
Pre won the US trials in a US record 13:22 in 1972. In the Olympics two months later, the winner ran 13:26. Pre tried to front run and faded to 4th.
To make matters worse, he surged hard with 700 to go to move from 4th back to 1st... a huge waste of energy.
A gutsy, but stupid race by Prefontaine. I respect the effort, but not the lack of discipline.
Pretty sure Pre was not the toughest guy in that trials race, either.
Von Hayek wrote:
How come everyone likes a front runner but a sit and wait runner is "chicken s***" according to Prefontaine?
Front runners are always called courageous for putting "everything on the line". Hence Prefontaine has a legacy and myth about him.
It also the reason why a runner like Alberto Cova doesn't get any respect (besides the doping) even though he is OG, WC and EC gold medalist.
Mo Farah is a champion who sits and waits as well but people prefer Bekele.
Von Hayek wrote:
How come everyone likes a front runner but a sit and wait runner is "chicken s***" according to Prefontaine?
Norpoth’s second big race before the European Cup took place in a dual meet against the USA in Stuttgart. Here, Norpoth improved his seasonal best with a 13:34.6 victory over another very competitive runner, Steve Prefontaine. The 19-year-old American led from the start and stayed in front until Norpoth sprinted away in the last 250. According to Kenny Moore, “Pre was mad from the instant he crossed the finish line. On the victory stand, while receiving their medals, Pre got into Norpoth’s face. ‘I think it’s chickenshit,’ he hissed, ‘for an old guy like you to let a little kid do all the work and humiliate him in the end.’ The crowd saw how hot he was, and started to jeer. Norpoth replied eloquently without a word, lifting his gold medal to the crowd and then holding it right under Pre’s nose.” (Kenny Moore, “Leading Men” Going Long, p.177)