Triathlete who had run a 2:48 marathon in an Ironman runs a marathon fresh, guess his time

ex-triathlete wrote:

about a decade ago, a pro German triathlete named Norman Stadler did something similar.

Norman is now retired, but was known primarily as a bike specialist.

At the time when he did this, he had already won the Hawaii world champs once IIRC.

Basically it happened in the Fall, and he had just scratched from an ironman race and decided to jump into a German marathon (i think it was Frankfurt) based on his fitness.

He usually ran low 2:50s off the bike, and did 2:31 i think in the standalone marathon, just off pure ironman training.

20 minutes is about right, especially for the non running specialists.

Close! Normann Stadler ran 2:32:12 in 2007 at the Frankfurt Marathon. He was a low-mid 2:50's guy in Ironmans.

2:29

theJeff wrote:

2:29

I wasn't too far off. FWIW, that is pretty consistent with my open 10k to Olympic Run drop off (in terms of %, lol)

Doesn’t surprise me.

As a 45-year-old who finishes just inside the top third in a decent 70.3 field, I give up 1:00 to 1:15 per mile.

I don’t know if runners quite know how hard we’re pushing on the bike and how blasted the quads and glutes are for the run. Even at 1:00 per mile slower, that crap hurts.

RI red wrote:

Almost got arrested there for running shirtless back in the day when Swan and Debbie were the champs.

Almost got arrested = wasn't arrested

Cool story

A buddy of mine ran 3:38 in his Ironman (9:59:50) and yesterday was his first open marathon (2:55:05)

Nothing to see, here wrote:

RI red wrote:

Almost got arrested there for running shirtless back in the day when Swan and Debbie were the champs.

Almost got arrested = wasn't arrested

Cool story

Help me out here. That's right, the cop didn't arrest me. This story was just a follow-up recollection to my original post.

Seriously you think you may have an answer? Based off this one race that you know nothing about. This level of stupidity because it shows results you want to see is unfathomable.

He is a good runner but probably not the best out there. There are some very good runner's in the ITU aspect of triathlon including one junior Australian back in the day who notched victories over Tiernan. Not many juniors run 8:08 for 3k at 17 years of age. The ironman guys are generally some pretty big guys and run well, Mark Allen back in the day did run a 50 minutes 10 miler at Cherry Blossom.

Alastair Brownlee ran 28:32 for 10,000M a few years ago (on the track) at Mt. Sacs. He is also an amazing swimmer. It is difficult to be good at both as the two sports usually require very different body types. Runners are shorter, lighter built, and have longer legs relative to their overall height. Swimmers are pretty much the exact opposite. His 28:32 10k came off an injury. He also raced an olympic distance triathlon just one week earlier. There is no doubt about the distance as he ran it on the track. A pretty amazing feat for a so called non runner. How many non Africans now a days are running such times? Oh by the way...It was his first track race!

I thought people like Mike Scott, Scott Molina, Mark Allen, Scott Tinsley and one or two others ran faster marathons in their Ironman races.

I think Mark Allen was a 2:20 guy for marathon but could be wrong.

Trained with Scott Molina once and he was a pretty handy runner as well.

Did only one triathlon and broke Greg Welch's record for the run split of local race but was only 5k.

Today's generation of ITU triathletes can run for sure.

Crazy to think that Rinney had run 2:48-2:49 in Kona in hot conditions. That should equte to 2:28-2:29 as well which would put her amongs the fastest non Africans.

coahc wrote:

I think Mark Allen was a 2:20 guy for marathon but could be wrong.

No, he made a serious effort at it, switching from triathlon training to marathon training with the hope of running under 2:20 and qualifying for the Olympic trials (1992, I believe), but he never really got very close. I did, however, check on your earlier statement that he ran fifty minutes at the Cherry Blossom Ten-Miler, and found that a "Mark Allen" ran 49:46 in the 1991 race, just behind Darrell General and just ahead of Jim Hage, so he was competitive with some excellent marathoners at shorter distances. (That time also makes his listed 29:59 10k more credible to me.) I believe that his fastest marathon time in an Ironman was 2:40:04.

Matt Haugen, who was the USA Tri Coach for a brief while, was a 2:23 guy. 8:41 Ironman.

Hounddogharrier wrote:

Thanks rojo . So the rule of thumb is now iron man marathon - 20 minutes = marathon best . Good sleuth work .

This guy is 35 and we don't know where he ran his 2:48. If it was on one of the FAST course or on a short course. If he has run 2:48, 2:48, 2:49, 2:50, etc, then that time is his limit. But you didn't find that out. Also, he ran this in Bermuda, not Chicago or Berlin or somewhere fast.

I don't think triathletes could run 2:10 or something really good. However, when you think that Bob Hodge trained for the 10K seriously and ran 28:24 and 28:29 in 1984 and 1987 and ran 2:10:59 on a non-record-eligible course Nike-OTC in 1980. And then overlay that with the fact that Brownlee ran 28:30 for the win a few yrs ago at Stanford (a very legit track 10K). Yet he never runs marathons in the triathlon.

So I don't know if Brownlee has been the best triathlon runner of all time (how would we know?) and he has never run a marathon, but I can't see him not running 2:14 or so.

Have any of you run 28:30 on the track and given the marathon your best shot and not run 2:14-2:15?

A woman has run 2:15 and two have run 2:17 and many have run 2:18-19, but nobody has ever come close to 28:30 on the track. Leads me to believe that the BEST triathletes would run around 2:15 in ideal conditions and the great ones (8:10-8:20 in Kona) would run 2:20-23.

But we will never know and this guy is just an experiment of one.

HMArunner wrote:

A buddy of mine ran 3:38 in his Ironman (9:59:50) and yesterday was his first open marathon (2:55:05)

Nice!! sub-10 and sub-3!! He should be proud!!

Alistair has said he would like to run a marathon to see how fast he could go and try to make the commonwealth team. There was speculation of him running London but he had surgery a few months back so might not happen this year. He has also said he thinks he can run 2:10-2:15

Yes, I remember Mark Allen as an example of someone I thought might be able to achieve his goal of under 2:20 when he switched to marathon training, but he didn't come close. Certainly one of the best runners in triathlon was Carol Montgomery (who was also on Canadian olympic track team, if I remember right), but she didn't do races that long. Luc van Lierde was a superb runner, but I never read of him trying an open marathon for which he trained.

I think the 20 minute difference between IM marathon and open marathon only applies to top highly trained (generally pro) triathletes. I know plenty of people who are more on the order of 40 minutes slower in a tri. Of course, ironman races are often done in conditions (heat, humidity) that are not as good as open marathons. Who might have a difference of less than 20 minutes? Perhaps a superbly trained athlete who is very talented on the bike and not as good on the run (genetics, lack of speed training background for running)? It is interesting that gifted runner who do the swim and bike relatively easy still do not generally run very fast marathon splits in ironman ... the 112 miles on the bike, even at a significantly slower pace than the winners, wears them down. I would say that, in general, the people who are running marathon times only 20 minutes slower are *very* strong and well-trained on the bike.