Lance Armstrong on Chris Froome

its almost as if when you try to just scroll down past all the annoying quotes within quotes is when the SPAM gets you...last month it was walmart gift cards, now its amazon....SO ANNOYING, crazy to say i know but its more annoying than the EPO deniers and basic intrinsic jokes

rekrunner wrote:

Nor does it mention the ripple effect of the reputation of all endurance sports, like running, where fans further doubt all great performances, thinking that villagers in Kenya and Ethiopia have the access to the same level of resources that allowed Lance to dope and escape detection,

Yes, this is probably the greatest tragedy. Without the Armstrong scandal, the East African runners would have been able to continue doping without much scrutiny. He ruined it for a lot of people.

Well said...+1

Smile, don't you know God love's you. Come to think of it, I love you to. Take the time to smile at some one and before your true, some one will be smiling back at you.

Love your enemies, Jamin Calculo etc. They are far from prefect, but have hearts of gold. They will love you back, and some day you could be a mod here to. I hope to eventually be a leader of letsrun some day myself.

Banana Bread wrote:

Smile, don't you know God love's you. Come to think of it, I love you to. Take the time to smile at some one and before your true, some one will be smiling back at you.

Love your enemies, Jamin Calculo etc. They are far from prefect, but have hearts of gold. They will love you back, and some day you could be a mod here to. I hope to eventually be a leader of letsrun some day myself.

A little too much to drink over Xmas?

rekrunner wrote:

Nor does it mention the ripple effect of the reputation of all endurance sports, like running, where fans further doubt all great performances, thinking that villagers in Kenya and Ethiopia have the access to the same level of resources that allowed Lance to dope and escape detection, or that any great athlete sponsored by Nike must also be protected by Nike lawyers.

Not sure whether you are kidding or not.

If yes, ok, you trolled me.

If no:

- fans are doubting all great performances at least since the 70's (more casual fans since Ben Johnson)

- noone thinks Kenyans and Ethiopians have the same level of resources (but we know they can easily get EPO and steroids)

- we know that any great athlete sponsored by Nike is also be protected by Nike lawyers (just look at the ongoing NOP investigation)

As a son of literally God, I should for give you for that horrible statement.

Banana Bread wrote:

As a son of literally God, I should for give you for that horrible statement.

And I'll "forgive" you for that. ?

m!ndweak wrote:

dont bother with pointing out truth

rekrunner, like jamin and vent/calculo are MODS on this site.

Right. But think positive: rekrunner is less insulting these days, jamin doesn't write endless nonsense with each post, and vent has a cool calculator.

fixing stuff wrote:

Right. But think positive: rekrunner is less insulting these days, jamin doesn't write endless nonsense with each post, and vent has a cool calculator.

"rekrunner is less insulting these days?" ?

You do realise that he also had a motor in his bike that others did not have access to. This was where the missing wattage that Lemond mentioned came from.

Robo. wrote:

Aragon wrote:

While there was a lot of positive initial reaction to Tyler's book, the opinion of many "in-the-know" has become more skeptical about his reliabity when time has passed. The book reviewer of Podium Cafe and the author of the trilogy A history on the use of blood transfusions in cycling wrote the following about Mr. Hamilton quite recently in another context:

There has never emerged any semi-reliable evidence that L.A. had access to products/methods not available to others. If he had, I don't know, but I am not convinced.

You do realise that he also had a motor in his bike that others did not have access to. This was where the missing wattage that Lemond mentioned came from.

I knew there was something fishy going on! The way he pulled away from the world's best climbers as if they were going backwards climb after climb, year after year, was just too unbelievable. And most of the top GT contenders were doping with the same products & methods as Armstrong was, so it should have been more of a level playing field than it was. You don't dominate the TdF for seven straight years the way he did on dope alone.

Perhaps you should publish an exposé about his motor because obviously you have some inside insights into the matter instead of the vague and murky allegations that have been circulating roughly a year now.

If it is proven that Lance had access to motor I'll change my opinion about him instantly even when it can't be proven that the technology wasn't available to his competitors.

I'm Starting To See The Light wrote:

Robo. wrote:

You do realise that he also had a motor in his bike that others did not have access to. This was where the missing wattage that Lemond mentioned came from.

I knew there was something fishy going on! The way he pulled away from the world's best climbers as if they were going backwards climb after climb, year after year, was just too unbelievable. And most of the top GT contenders were doping with the same products & methods as Armstrong was, so it should have been more of a level playing field than it was. You don't dominate the TdF for seven straight years the way he did on dope alone.

Exactly, the dots start to connect in terms of performance when you realise this. Obviously the LA fanboys will be out in force to defend this claim, just as they were before he admitted doping. The truth will out.

As near as fact as may be: All Grand Tour winners and and top competitors have used some form of artificial aid. The fellows of the last few years are just currently a bit a head of testing. Eventually they will start to get busted or implicated in some form.

That out of the way, what I recommend is people listen to the Forward podcast. Every Monday Lance has a new one out. He does talk about taking things too far, regrets certain actions (the podcast is not about him, but these sorts of statements come out while interviewing people.)

Sure, I think he is definitely trying to re-brand himself, and I also think on some level the last 5 years or so have changed his personality. I'm sure losing 10s of millions of dollars and the backlash of millions of fans can help put some perspective on things. Sometimes people gotta be hit hard before they start to learn.

well said fred wrote:

- noone thinks Kenyans and Ethiopians have the same level of resources (but we know they can easily get EPO and steroids)

- we know that any great athlete sponsored by Nike is also be protected by Nike lawyers (just look at the ongoing NOP investigation)

All a nationally talented athlete needs is the EPO. The actual use is pretty easy as long as you can monitor your blood values to be certain you won't die in your sleep because your blood turned to sludge.

Regarding Nike, they are the IAAF's #1 source of visibility outside the sport. Maybe you don't remember, but Coe was being paid by Nike until some point a few months into Coe's ascendency. And then the official Coe response was a weak apology and more obfuscation.

It helps that Coe seems to know nothing, yet in charge of an international sports federation. He apparently doesn't even read his own email.

Unlikely they had motors in 2001. Hamilton would have mentioned it. Unless Hamilton didn't know? Still, very unlikely.

How often do tour cyclists get a mechanical at the bottom of a steep climb and need a new bike swapped in? It'd be an interesting study.

The motor aspect is the most interesting angle at the tour, but for the current generation.

Robo. wrote:

Aragon wrote:

There has never emerged any semi-reliable evidence that L.A. had access to products/methods not available to others. If he had, I don't know, but I am not convinced.

You do realise that he also had a motor in his bike that others did not have access to. This was where the missing wattage that Lemond mentioned came from.

What Armstrong had was a national federation that was allowing him to dope and had been since he was a teenager doping with Chris Carmichael and Rene Wenzel. Thom Wiesel, owner of USA Cycling and chairman of USACDF lands USPS and the UCI looks the other way because every WT sponsorship is a big boost to UCI coffers.

So it is likely Armstrong didn't have better drugs as much as no fear he would ever test positive and no problem taking drugs as it was all he knew the sport to be. Meanwhile, other riders seemed to fear testing positive. Remember, this is also a team that fixed races, so, every trick in the book was in play, particularly in the U.S.

That's enough of a performance gap without assuming there were "better drugs" for some.

As for putting motors on Armstrong's bike, I think you are mixing eras. Race radios were an enormous leap forward at the time.