Road Racing and Training ending 12-10-17

too hot wrote:

Smoove wrote:

I agree with slo-twitch, I think sub 2:35 is sort of the baseline goal for you. When I ran 2:30-2:35 in my three, I was in 15:30-15:50 5k shape and 25:50 5 mile shape. My half was faster, but it is still a half that sets 2:35 as the upper end of a reasonable goal for you.

Lots of folks have run really well using Pfitzenger's plans. I haven't read his marathon plan, but I know he generally is in the Daniels set of mind.

Please do some reading before mouthing off, coach. Pfitz is not like Daniels.

That's not what he said. He said in the Daniels set of mind, which Noakes notes in "Lore". Chapter 5 "Pfitzingers Ideas match those of Jack Daniels, as do his methods of achieving the different physiological adaptions".

So Smoove is def not alone in the assessment.

Male, 49. Just finished week five of the second of three mileage buildups I'm putting myself through to get my base back after a couple years off. I have decided to take my easy week one week early this time, and re-assess the situation. I've been a little too tired on more runs than I'd like recently, and wanted to take a little rest before getting back into it for the final mileage buildup.

However, I'm thinking that I might start getting into phase 2 of my comeback plan a little early instead of a third, and final mileage buildup. Phase 2 would be lowering mileage a little and re-introducing more quality; some intervals and the like, before I move into Spring training, where I will be doing a lot more quality. Not sure right now which direction to go right now. On the fence.

1st buildup: 76km, 75km, 81km, 82km, 92km, 50km

2nd buildup: 90km, 76km, 106km, 114km, 66km

M - 10km easy

T - 6km medium

W - 15km easy, hilly route

T - off

F - 8km medium-hard

S - 12km easy

S - 15km easy, hilly route

Total - 66km (41 miles)

Not my usual handle wrote:

I just ask you again, to understand that we do not talk to each other like that on this thread in particular. It is an unwritten, but followed rule.

Well, it used to be unwritten.

Bit of an up week for me. A local running club has has access to a HS track so I joined them for a workout this week. Excluding races I had my first workout in a while. This is also the first workout after adjusting my training paces using my recent race performances. With the cold weather, my weekday runs resemble progression runs only slower. Slow first mile to warmup and avoid HR spiking and then it takes while to really warm up and find my rhythm.

Mon. AM 6.3mi Easy, PM 5.1mi extra easy couples run

Tues. 5.4mi

Wed. 6.6mi

Thurs. LT workout 1.5mi WU, 6x1km @6:40 w/ 200m jog recovery, 2mi CD

Fri. 5.1 Extra easy couples run (convenient post workout recovery run)

Sat. 12.5 Easy

Sun. Core and hip work

Total 49mi

Here I am 22 weeks from my goal race and I have not firmed up my marathon training plan. I am going to ask Santa for Daniel's Running Formula and give it a read and after that decide whether to use a predefined plan or just plan out something that I think would work for me and help stay injury free. I am open to any opinions or suggestions.

hantph96 - Congrats on the new PR.

Coach Jeff - Your Taper Madness story put a smile on my face. Good luck at your marathon.

Smoove - Picking up your cramps discussion on this thread. During the race is one thing, but if it starts before the race I would consider what has changed leading up to the race. Any diet changes?

Pappy - Sorry about your ankle. Definitely better to be safe then sorry and give it a break. Especially if you have no good reason to push it. After being out with an injury I am an advocate for core and hip work. I'm not sure what is good for your ankle though.

Still Improving, the first time I ever had calf cramps was at 20-21 miles of Chicago, but I had plenty of general cramping in the lead up to that race, because I had to train through a Florida Sunner for that one. It happened to me throughout the entire Boston cycle (calves included). It's the most daunting thing about running another marathon. Pedialyte experimentation begins this week.

Howdy all.

M - 4 easy

T - 8 am easy, 3 pm easy w/5 strides

W - 8.5 w/ 5x1200, 60" rest. 1200s were 4:33 each.

T - 3 am easy, 4pm easy

F - off

S - 5 easy w/ 5 strides

S - 12 w/ 5k in 18:10

Jekyl and Hyde week for me for sure. Week started off well, Wednesday's workout was pure tempo effort and I finished each rep well under control and completed the workout feeling it was almost too easy. Certainly could have piled on a number more reps without strain. Friday wasn't planned off but life got in the way once again.

On to Saturday's 5k, absolutely terrible. I felt 17:40 was a reasonable target for my fitness and it just didn't materialize. Felt dull and flat all through the 3 mile warm up which left me with a very uneasy feeling for the race. Figured I could probably at least hang on and run under 18 anyway. Went out at 5:37 on the first mile and felt ok (fought a bit of a headwind too) and then turning into mile 2 everything just got heavy and stomach turned into a knot. Slowed to a 5:50 in mile 2 and by mile three it was a struggle to run a 6 flat. No clue what happened, either a bad day or just simply am not as fit as I think I am. Either way it is what it is. At least I have some numbers to build with and improve on and, apparently, a whole lot of work on the table.

OR and RRR thanks! I want to average in the 50s for this next cycle. Went a little high this week but feel pretty good.

Working Harder, I feel you on that tough 5K. You'll get that next one!

Hantph- congrats on the 10K PR!

My week was good, got about 56 miles, planned on running a 5K yesterday but didn't because of the terrible weather. Maybe do one next Saturday instead

J- another consistent week! Congrats. Like watching everyone on strava so thanks for making that happen. Good motivation to see others grinding along w w ya.

WH - Do not sweat the disappointing result. You are much faster than that.

hi guys, great weeks all around, want to get the comments in but I have to step out so I'll post them later

ok week for me

mon- 30 minutes easy

tue- 5x200m, 1x300m (33.6, 31.5, 31.5, 32.2, 32.2, 50.2) 4 minutes in between each rep

wed- 40 minutes easy

thu- 3x1600m tempo interval with 1:00 rest (7:02, 6:59, 7:06)

fri- am 4x100m sprint (13.3, 13.15, 13.37, 13.4)

sat- 800, 3:00 rest, 600, 6:00 rest, 400, 2:00 rest, 4x300 with 1:30 rest, 4x200 with 1:00 rest. Splits were (2:49, 2:02, 1:20, 59, 59, 59, 60, 37,37,38,37)

su- 40 minutes easy

Hey, Still Improving

Here I am 22 weeks from my goal race and I have not firmed up my marathon training plan. I am going to ask Santa for Daniel's Running Formula and give it a read and after that decide whether to use a predefined plan or just plan out something that I think would work for me and help stay injury free. I am open to any opinions or suggestions.

I'm no expert, but 22 weeks is still a long way out in my thinking so don't panic. I've done "plans" that I've tried to stick to as strictly as possible, and I've also tried trying to put something together myself. I think, as experienced runners, we reach a point where we kinda understand the principles behind certain training philosophies and become more able to adapt a predefined training plan to our own particular circumstances. I've done what I'd call "Danielsish" training, "Hansonsish" training, and this time, after trying Pfitz 55 several times earlier in my marathon life (I wasn't ready for it), I went with a Pfitzish training bloc. After a several month base phase, I roughly followed the Pfitz 55 scheds, especially in terms of general phases and mileage progressions, but I also juggled some workouts to fit my needs and lifestyle...for example, running my "mountain cruise" intervals on trails rather than a steady-state threshold run... just cuz I wanted to.

misser of jamin wrote:

hi guys, great weeks all around, want to get the comments in but I have to step out so I'll post them later

ok week for me

mon- 30 minutes easy

tue- 5x200m, 1x300m (33.6, 31.5, 31.5, 32.2, 32.2, 50.2) 4 minutes in between each rep

wed- 40 minutes easy

thu- 3x1600m tempo interval with 1:00 rest (7:02, 6:59, 7:06)

fri- am 4x100m sprint (13.3, 13.15, 13.37, 13.4)

sat- 800, 3:00 rest, 600, 6:00 rest, 400, 2:00 rest, 4x300 with 1:30 rest, 4x200 with 1:00 rest. Splits were (2:49, 2:02, 1:20, 59, 59, 59, 60, 37,37,38,37)

su- 40 minutes easy

That seems like an awful lot of intervals?

I'll be back with comments in the morning, but for now here's my week.

M - 8 miles, 6:52 avg.

T - 5 of wu & cd, 3x(600, 300, 200) with 300 and 200 jogging rest within each set, 60 seconds btw. sets.

Splits: 1:37, 49.45, 30.11, 1:43, 49.25, 31.13, 1:43, 47.90, 30.01.

W - 13 miles, 6:27 avg. + 4 strides

T - 11 miles, 6:28 avg. + 4 strides

F - AM 5 miles, 6:48 avg. PM 8.5 miles, 6:34 avg.

S - Unplanned off day.

S - 16 miles, 5:59 avg.

Total: 69.5 miles in 6 days.

I had been planning on hitting 80 this week, but Saturday ruined that. Snowed here which made other plans take way longer than I had anticipated. Otherwise I'm pretty happy with the week. Still focusing on getting volume in, so I just hopped in the workout that looked like the most fun with the track club Tuesday. Running fast is fun, and the guy doing the interval workout would've been solo otherwise so I worked with him. Long run Sunday was pretty decent, progressed from 6:16 down to 5:32 pace for the last mile.

@statfanatic: nice workout, very good 600s :D

my week was screwed up by getting a cold, but i.m happy with the weekend:

Week 6 (35miles)

? Monday: 10 km + 6*60m

? Tuesday:

100, 200, 300, 4, 5, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1

@16, 33, 49, 69, 1.25, 1.23, 67, 47, 30, 15

? Wednesday: rest

? Thursday: 14km (5Miles fartlek)

? Friday: warm up, drills, strides & 6*60m, cool down

? Saturday: 1500m in 4.05 (500m splits: 1.23, 1.24, 1.18)

? Sunday: 3000m in 8.47 (1000m splits: 3.00, 2.59, 2.48)

? Week total: 55kms (34miles)

*I.ve got sick at the begining of the week. having fever I couldn.t sleep on Wednesday night ? I thought i won.t be able to run the indoor training races in the weekend.. but then i felt better and the races went pretty ok (winning both of them - the 3000m one by only a half of a second in a 60m sprint)

Morning all,

Lots of slightly higher mileage weeks in here. Lovely to see in winter.

Bdubs - Can only agree that 2:35 would be your most conservative guess.

My week was interrupted by illness from last weekend and by moving house, which drains the soul.

M - Off

T - 10.7 easy

W - About 8? Moving house and jogging around the city.

Th - 8k tempo on track, alternating 80s and 90s laps. Well that was goal pace. Ended the workout 20 seconds over as we figured a tiny bit slower was better than faster at the beginning. Took a while to nail the paces, started hurting about lap 12/13 but then felt great towards the end. Much stronger than I thought.

F - Off

Sa - 2 mile - 17:25 park run - 2 mile

Su - 8 total

Total 45

3rd week of 45 when the goal is 55, slightly frustrating but life and illness have been getting in the way. But 2 tempos and an interval session every week except this one makes me happier about it.

Misser of Jamin,

When does your endurance fall off? You do excellent 200-300 meter repeats, but then slow down a lot for regular runs/races.

Makes me think you have lots of potential

Hantph - Congrats on the PR! Really solid week overall too. How did those 400's on the treadmill feel? I'd imagine that's a tough way to do that workout.

NaCR - You're definitely starting to get pretty fit. Maybe think about working strides in after your normal runs a couple times a week to help get that turnover going? Good luck this weekend!

Coach - You're ready to roll. Excited to see how the race goes.

Smoove - Solid week once again. 5:20 pace seems to be getting pretty comfortable for you which I would think bodes well for a shot at sub-70.

OR - Nice week! Looks like you're building some good base fitness for whenever you start that next goal race cycle.

Bdubs - Nice week! Got some really good volume in there and it looks like you still have some good speed based on those 400's. Would Grandma's be fairly local for you? It's a bit earlier than twin cities but everyone I know who has run it loved it.

AJ - Dang. That's a ton of volume in 6 days.

R4F - Congrats on the mileage PR. Getting some good volume in should set you up well for when you start workouts again.

Ontario - You've put a lot of base work in already. I would maybe think about introducing some quality at this point, although I wouldn't move to intervals quite yet. I think a couple weeks with a fartlek of some sort and a tempo would be a good way to reintroduce some quality before starting interval workouts. Just my 2 cents. I know there are a lot of different approaches out there.

Improving - Nice week, 22 weeks is plenty of time, so I would take a little bit to do some research and find a plan you're really comfortable with.

Working - Those days happen. I think you are in a little better shape than that race showed, but 17:40 might have been a stretch. Your workout Wednesday was 6k of work at about 18:40-45 pace, so I think running about a minute faster than that was a little optimistic. Sub-18 is probably reasonable on a better day though.

MoJ - Nice week. I think a little more 'normal' volume might benefit you as there's a fairly large difference between the paces you hit on your shorter reps and your tempo miles. For example running an easy 30-40 minutes before the intervals T and F, and then keeping those a little more controlled on slightly shorter rest would probably help your aerobic capacity improve without losing too much of that speed.

Emanuel - Thank you! The first 600 we got out a little hot but the other two felt nice and controlled. Congrats on the victories! Those are both really solid openers, especially with being sick earlier in the week.

HHH - You're maintaining a really solid level of fitness through some busy weeks. That's definitely going to pay off when things settle down and you're able to put a little more volume in.

emanueltrandafir wrote:

? Saturday: 1500m in 4.05 (500m splits: 1.23, 1.24, 1.18)

? Sunday: 3000m in 8.47 (1000m splits: 3.00, 2.59, 2.48)

nice racing! What's up next?