Do the exercise shown on page 4/figure 2, you're welcome!
http://www.jospt.org/doi/pdf/10.2519/jospt.2015.5762?code=jospt-site
Do the exercise shown on page 4/figure 2, you're welcome!
http://www.jospt.org/doi/pdf/10.2519/jospt.2015.5762?code=jospt-site
another old guy wrote:
I have always kept running with it but dropped back to just very easy pace and no high intensity until it felt like the problem was settling down.
I agree with this.
The worst thing you can do for an overuse injury is quit running. What works for me on a lot of tweaks is to run on the treadmill at a high elevation 9-12% where I run a slow pace, little pounding, yet aerobically challenging.
agip wrote:
I wouldn't rule out piriformis issues. Pain from that little guy can project down the hamstring.
Can't hurt to do classic piriformis cure - sit on a baseball or tennis ball and massage the butt with it.
Do it for 3-4 days before you decide if it is unrelated.
Seriously - I know several people who thought they had hamstring problems but the tennis ball cure saved them in days.
Thanks! I'll try to add that today and continue with it for awhile. I have been obsessively researching this and can't pinpoint it. Today I feel like I have a lot of pain in the inner thigh area too and now I am even more confused to what it is.
Mountain practice...... wrote:
another old guy wrote:
I have always kept running with it but dropped back to just very easy pace and no high intensity until it felt like the problem was settling down.
I agree with this.
The worst thing you can do for an overuse injury is quit running. What works for me on a lot of tweaks is to run on the treadmill at a high elevation 9-12% where I run a slow pace, little pounding, yet aerobically challenging.
I would be so happy if I could run even just a few slow miles but will that slow the healing and drag this out longer? I do think you might be right though because I have been so inactive my fitbit barely shows 2000 steps and it still seems to hurt just as much as it did when I ran.
I tried to go for a short walk the other day and around 2 miles it started to hurt. When that happens should I keep going or is that a sign I already pushed it too far?
And how long did it take before you were running completely pain free?
sub2:28orbust wrote:
Can you do a reverse plank with leg raise? If this isoloates the pain then it could be SI joint/high hamstring tendonopathy
I actually don't have any pain with that exercise. What does isolate the pain is when do an elevated bridge and try to push off with just the injured leg.
another old guy wrote:
I have had both piriformis and upper hamstring attachment problems and they feel very similar, pain up under the glute. My experience has been that it is just a slow healing injury once you aggravate it. The two most helpful things I have found are first, sitting on a tennis ball or racquet/lacrosse ball, as mentioned above, and second practicing hurdle step-overs, which use and stretch that muscle region but with very little force. I have always kept running with it but dropped back to just very easy pace and no high intensity until it felt like the problem was settling down.
Were you able to completely cure the problem even while training through it? And did you reduce the frequency of your runs to only a few times a week? Also for the pain, did it hurt during certain movements like lunges or squats or bending down?
I have been trying to make myself wait and not attempt running or even too much walking until I have pain free range of motion but I feel like all this sitting and lying around is not really helping and I'm slowly going crazy!
cati1234 wrote:
agip wrote:
I wouldn't rule out piriformis issues. Pain from that little guy can project down the hamstring.
Can't hurt to do classic piriformis cure - sit on a baseball or tennis ball and massage the butt with it.
Do it for 3-4 days before you decide if it is unrelated.
Seriously - I know several people who thought they had hamstring problems but the tennis ball cure saved them in days.
Thanks! I'll try to add that today and continue with it for awhile. I have been obsessively researching this and can't pinpoint it. Today I feel like I have a lot of pain in the inner thigh area too and now I am even more confused to what it is.
inner thigh pain can be piriformis related also.
key is to try several different types of ball. It has to really dig up into the muscles in your butt. You can find videos of how to do it, but just get the ball as deep into the muscle as possible, where it hurts.
cati1234 wrote:
I tried to go for a short walk the other day and around 2 miles it started to hurt. When that happens should I keep going or is that a sign I already pushed it too far?
And how long did it take before you were running completely pain free?
A primary problem with hamstring injuries is that it will feel okay, so you walk. It's okay so you jog. You jog more. Then, all of a sudden, twang! It hurts. That means the scar tissue has torn and healing of that strand of tissue must start over from day one.
It's the same with stretching. It's okay. It's okay. Then, it hurts. By the time it hurts, the scar has torn and you have to start over. Hamstring injuries can thus take forever to heel.
I would suggest heat. No icing. Ibuprofen. Rolling on a lacrosse ball/baseball/etc. No stretching. No strengthening exercises. Liniment that heats the area. Bromelain/fresh pineapple. Sleeping on heating pad in that area. You want to speed the blood flow to that area. That's what the heat and liniment will do. Once you can walk without pain, you can add a light stretch... BUT ONLY TO THE VERY FIRST POINT OF FEELING TIGHT. Then, back off a little immediately. You are more likely to reinjure yourself, because most runner stretch too hard.
Of all these steps, the ones that worked best for me was a heating pad at night and the ball roll.
After a couple weeks, you should be able to resume running at a brisk walk pace as long as you also avoid hills, turns, and steps. By brisk walk, I mean 12-13 minute miles. Continue to limit your pace (i.e. range of motion that stretches the ligament) for at least another week. Eight weeks after my injury, I won the 1500m at the Huntsman World Games. However, I think I caught my injury sooner into the run than you did.
fisky wrote:
cati1234 wrote:
I tried to go for a short walk the other day and around 2 miles it started to hurt. When that happens should I keep going or is that a sign I already pushed it too far?
And how long did it take before you were running completely pain free?
A primary problem with hamstring injuries is that it will feel okay, so you walk. It's okay so you jog. You jog more. Then, all of a sudden, twang! It hurts. That means the scar tissue has torn and healing of that strand of tissue must start over from day one.
It's the same with stretching. It's okay. It's okay. Then, it hurts. By the time it hurts, the scar has torn and you have to start over. Hamstring injuries can thus take forever to heel.
I would suggest heat. No icing. Ibuprofen. Rolling on a lacrosse ball/baseball/etc. No stretching. No strengthening exercises. Liniment that heats the area. Bromelain/fresh pineapple. Sleeping on heating pad in that area. You want to speed the blood flow to that area. That's what the heat and liniment will do. Once you can walk without pain, you can add a light stretch... BUT ONLY TO THE VERY FIRST POINT OF FEELING TIGHT. Then, back off a little immediately. You are more likely to reinjure yourself, because most runner stretch too hard.
Of all these steps, the ones that worked best for me was a heating pad at night and the ball roll.
After a couple weeks, you should be able to resume running at a brisk walk pace as long as you also avoid hills, turns, and steps. By brisk walk, I mean 12-13 minute miles. Continue to limit your pace (i.e. range of motion that stretches the ligament) for at least another week. Eight weeks after my injury, I won the 1500m at the Huntsman World Games. However, I think I caught my injury sooner into the run than you did.
Great advice! I think I must have done something too aggressive because it hurts as much as it did when I first noticed the pain and maybe even worse. So far I've been using ice but that doesn't seem to help so I'll try heat instead.
I can walk a little bit without pain, is that something I should continue with to help blood flow and circulation or can that tear the injury more too?
Congrats on beating it, this is the most annoying nagging injury I've dealt with especially since I haven't figured out the rules on what to do and avoid. Did you do anything else while you were injured? I'm considering Graston and ART for quicker recovery.
Having the same issue wrote:
I've been getting this pain since the first part of July, which was possibly a middle hamstring tear at that time.
The first issue was pain in my butt, which was especially painful when sitting, and standing for more than a few minutes.
More recently the pain moved to the middle of my hamstring, and my pain is sometimes quite painful when walking.
I was able to walk a mile with no pain a month ago but then it flared up again.
Pushing off the wall of the pool with my legs aggravates the injury and I've stopped swimming due to this.
Stretching appears to not help, which probably includes lunges.
Icing always helps. Heat always hurts.
Sitting in a squat position is relaxing but I don't know if this is good for it.
Reaching down to the floor with bent knees is very relaxing and relieves the pain.
I think indoor cycling is fine as long as I don't push it too hard and use lower cadences.
cati1234 wrote:
Did you have a sudden injury that you tore the hamstring or did it start more gradually? Mine came on very mild and quickly got worse and now I'm afraid I'll be battling this a long time. For me stretching doesn't seem to help either. On some days coming up from a squat actually hurts and also when I bend to pick something up. I have been too scared to try cycling but if the PT says it's ok I might give it a try.
The hamstring issue seemed to evolve rather quickly, but I think the first incident is what caused it. My hamstring was cramping, and I forced my leg out to extension contrary to the cramp, a major mistake as the injury has persisted since then, and later was aggravated when swimming by pushing hard off the wall, so I'm done with swimming at this point. That hamstring has been tight for a number of years, along with sitz bone soreness at times, so it could have been more susceptible to an injury. I was routinely running up to 11 miles prior to a knee issue in the same leg about one year ago. I've been maintaining condition since then and aiming to get walking, hiking, running again, whatever will be possible.
I've come to the conclusion since last night ~ hardly being able to walk ~ that the extensive lunge type stretching I did yesterday morning was the cause. Based on this my current plan is the following.
Avoid
>> any and all extreme stretching which includes:
>> full squats, full lunges, straight leg toe touching (reaching), fun range hip bends and so on;
Good or okay
>> thus the following should tentatively be okay:
>> half squats, half lunges, leaning over with hands on knees, indoor cycling, walking, gardening, things like this.
LosingHope wrote:
I had hope when it seemed to get better after resting for a week but then I got a massage from the PT and now it has suddenly gotten even worse than it was when I went running. Now the slightest movement causes a twinge of pain in the upper hamstring area and I don't even know if I should continue any bridges or strengthening work.
Is it possible the massage made things worse in some way and can that affect the healing process?
YES, absolutely.
Using heat or massage to an injury will always make it worse. Consider that heat increases inflammation, increases pain, compromises the tissue that's attempting to heal, can make the injury much worse, and delays the healing process.
In my experience, icing is the best.
Rolling, stretching, and/or massage can be helpful in other areas, but not at the site of an injury.
Mountain practice...... wrote:
What works for me on a lot of tweaks is to run on the treadmill at a high elevation 9-12% where I run a slow pace, little pounding, yet aerobically challenging.
When I had the knee injury which was painful to walk very far on the flat, I was able to walk for extended periods on the treadmill at 7% and then do the same thing on hills, which helped my knees and legs to get stronger. I plan to keep doing this gradually as my hamstring is healing.
Use ice .. several times a day .. only a minute or two at a time wrote:
LosingHope wrote:
I had hope when it seemed to get better after resting for a week but then I got a massage from the PT and now it has suddenly gotten even worse than it was when I went running. Now the slightest movement causes a twinge of pain in the upper hamstring area and I don't even know if I should continue any bridges or strengthening work.
Is it possible the massage made things worse in some way and can that affect the healing process?
YES, absolutely.
Using heat or massage to an injury will always make it worse. Consider that heat increases inflammation, increases pain, compromises the tissue that's attempting to heal, can make the injury much worse, and delays the healing process.
In my experience, icing is the best.
Rolling, stretching, and/or massage can be helpful in other areas, but not at the site of an injury.
I have not applied any heat yet but I am guess the aggressive massage at the area where it hurts has caused some sort of micro-tear or further damage. I wish I had done more research before going in for PT and not blindly trusted them just because they have a degree. I am just going to ice and use the foam roller which I did before and seemed to at least help the leg feel less tight.
I feel like everything I've done has only made it worse - PT, hamstring strengthening, stretching, yoga and massage. If I just accept the loss of fitness and not do anything for a month will it go away when I come back? I have read in many places that even with a long period of total rest it will come back as soon as you run so I don't know what needs to be done to cure this thing for good.
Use ice .. several times a day .. only a minute or two at a time wrote:
Rolling, stretching, and/or massage can be helpful in other areas, but not at the site of an injury.
Especially if the cause is not where the pain is.
There are going to be different ways to treat this if it is a hamstring injury compared to a muscular injury or tightness that is pulling on the hamstring making it hurt. Those are two completely different injuries though the pain may be similar.
If you strained a hamstring, you are looking at many weeks for it to heal. If it is muscular, you can get over it much faster provided you can find which muscles are tight.
Use ice .. several times a day .. only a minute or two at a time wrote:
LosingHope wrote:
I had hope when it seemed to get better after resting for a week but then I got a massage from the PT and now it has suddenly gotten even worse than it was when I went running. Now the slightest movement causes a twinge of pain in the upper hamstring area and I don't even know if I should continue any bridges or strengthening work.
Is it possible the massage made things worse in some way and can that affect the healing process?
YES, absolutely.
Using heat or massage to an injury will always make it worse. Consider that heat increases inflammation, increases pain, compromises the tissue that's attempting to heal, can make the injury much worse, and delays the healing process.
In my experience, icing is the best.
Rolling, stretching, and/or massage can be helpful in other areas, but not at the site of an injury.
Nope. Heat is good, icing is bad.
Since this injury has pretty much taken over my life I have been searching for any sort of help I can get. I think my problem might not be from hamstring weakness but just poor glute activation.
A PT recommended to do bridges and squeeze the glute but I feel like it still targets the hamstring a lot too. I found a great article on starting with a pelvic tilt exercise which is basically the starting position of the bridge except only squeezing and activating the glute muscles and releasing.
https://athletestreatingathletes.com/upper-hamstring-tendonitis/
Another helpful video series I found on pain in the upper hamstring which they call hamstring origin tendinopathy. I'm not sure if that's what I have but I'm going to start doing the glute activation exercises they show.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-_1RO_ZW1A&t=190s
Switch on glutes while standing - squeeze butt while trying to keep hamstrings relaxed
Lying face down leg lift switch on glute first
Standing ham curl
Switch on glute while seated and drive heel into ground (build up to longer holds)
Pelvic Tilt
Bridges
When I walk I also have hip flexor tightness in the left side which I think could be affecting the hamstring area too so I've been doing some hip flexor stretching and also massage it with a lacrosse ball.
The eccentric hamstring treadmill exercise was also shared on here and I found a video for it and it's something I'm going to do twice a day since the pain is not too bad.
Overall I think this will be a lot of trial and error and I cannot wait until it is behind me. The hardest part will probably be not running and also limiting walking which is hard when I live in Manhattan.
cati1234 wrote:
I found a great article on starting with a pelvic tilt exercise which is basically the starting position of the bridge except only squeezing and activating the glute muscles and releasing.
This exercise of activating the gluts in this manner you described has been helpful to me too.
Movement is accomplished by the activation of muscles as they contract, and relax. There is no excessive stretching that takes place thus no need to do stretching exercises, especially as they can be harmful.
Regarding heat vs ice, there was a PT instructor early on who (perhaps mistakenly) provided materials supporting the beneficial use of icing for healing of injuries, then said we should disregard that as it didn't mean anything, and always tell people to use heat on injuries. I asked him why not use ice, when heat just prolongs the injuries? He scoffed and said you don't make money when aren't injured. I'd had experience using icewater to rapidly heal a broken foot when training for marathons, and was disgusted with his comments.
There's a great book called "The causes, prevention and treatment of Sports Injuries," 1955 by Hans Kraus, where he discussed the benefits of using MICE vs RICE, the difference consisting of amble use of icing during gradual increases of movement during recovery periods toward the eventual outcome of full recovery. I recovered fully with this method and ran my best times.
https://www.amazon.com/Sports-Injuries-Hans-Kraus/dp/0399508619when *people aren't injured
cati1234 wrote:
This is the most mysterious injury I've dealt with and I really would like to get some advice on it. I have searched the boards for anything upper hamstring related but I don't think I saw anything with the exact symptoms.
3 weeks ago I noticed pain at the top of my hamstring right below the butt but not in any of the glute muscles so I've ruled out piriformis issues. I didn't really notice any pain while I was running but as soon as I finished I felt a pain in the area as I walked back. When I tried to cooldown after the run I noticed it hurt to bend over and rise back up and while doing a squat. The injury is on my left and a side lunge to the right is what causes a lot more pain. I did the hamstring straight leg stretch test both standing and lying down but that actually doesn't cause any pain. Bridges do not cause any pain but if I try to do a single leg bridge with the leg elevated. After feeling the pain I backed off a bit and took a lot of rest days before attempting to run but it always comes back. While I was resting I did a lot of hip strengthening with side leg lifts and clamshells and did a lot of bridges to try and strengthen the hamstrings and glutes. I also did a ton of lower body barre workouts which I thought would really strengthen everything before I tried to run again.
The last time I tried to run was 10 days ago and only 4 miles compared to the usual 8-10 and the pain came back again. I did a few days of the arc trainer and got ART from a physical therapist. Since it's such a stubborn injury I thought I would just back off from even cross training and just stick to core work and bridges for now. Even while I'm on total rest and barely even walking much it still hurts and shows no improvement.
Has anyone had this before and what does it take for it to go away? I am so desperate I am considering trying the EPAT shockwave therapy. Are there any treatments that are effective for this kind of injury? Also does an overuse strain sound like a correct diagnosis or does it seem more like tendonitis? Is total rest the best way to allow it to heal or is cross training or walking more a better idea to stimulate blood flow?
Any help or shared experiences would be great!
cati1234 wrote:
This is the most mysterious injury I've dealt with and I really would like to get some advice on it. I have searched the boards for anything upper hamstring related but I don't think I saw anything with the exact symptoms.
3 weeks ago I noticed pain at the top of my hamstring right below the butt but not in any of the glute muscles so I've ruled out piriformis issues. I didn't really notice any pain while I was running but as soon as I finished I felt a pain in the area as I walked back. When I tried to cooldown after the run I noticed it hurt to bend over and rise back up and while doing a squat. The injury is on my left and a side lunge to the right is what causes a lot more pain. I did the hamstring straight leg stretch test both standing and lying down but that actually doesn't cause any pain. Bridges do not cause any pain but if I try to do a single leg bridge with the leg elevated. After feeling the pain I backed off a bit and took a lot of rest days before attempting to run but it always comes back. While I was resting I did a lot of hip strengthening with side leg lifts and clamshells and did a lot of bridges to try and strengthen the hamstrings and glutes. I also did a ton of lower body barre workouts which I thought would really strengthen everything before I tried to run again.
The last time I tried to run was 10 days ago and only 4 miles compared to the usual 8-10 and the pain came back again. I did a few days of the arc trainer and got ART from a physical therapist. Since it's such a stubborn injury I thought I would just back off from even cross training and just stick to core work and bridges for now. Even while I'm on total rest and barely even walking much it still hurts and shows no improvement.
Has anyone had this before and what does it take for it to go away? I am so desperate I am considering trying the EPAT shockwave therapy. Are there any treatments that are effective for this kind of injury? Also does an overuse strain sound like a correct diagnosis or does it seem more like tendonitis? Is total rest the best way to allow it to heal or is cross training or walking more a better idea to stimulate blood flow?
Any help or shared experiences would be great!
I had the same exact injury as you...same symptoms, pains, etc. I found a good PT near me. She told me to strengthen the area around the injury without actually running. Do hip exercises, strengthen the area around you fascia, gluteus medius, and IT band on the side of your leg. Also you can swim to keep your aerobics/endurance up. Treading water (not on your back, but just straight up in the water) is a good exercise that can get you breathing pretty good.
Hope this helps!
run_wilson_js wrote:
I had the same exact injury as you...same symptoms, pains, etc. I found a good PT near me. She told me to strengthen the area around the injury without actually running. Do hip exercises, strengthen the area around you fascia, gluteus medius, and IT band on the side of your leg. Also you can swim to keep your aerobics/endurance up. Treading water (not on your back, but just straight up in the water) is a good exercise that can get you breathing pretty good.
Hope this helps!
What a great idea! I'm going to practice treading water instead of swimming the next time.
I've not done any stretching today, and my leg is feeling much better tonight.