Way to eliminate alcohol abuse on campuses

567 wrote:

back woods wrote:[/b

Lower the drinking age to 18. Having to drink in secret leads to binge drinking. One learns to drink responsibly doing so openly, in social environments. The stupidity of prohibition is well demonstrated empirically.

This actually a good idea. In Europe, while on a foreign exchange program in the 90's, the students over 18, were allowed to drink. Some actually had a few after school. But, there were no parties like here. No kids running around secretly drinking in their parents house when the parents were out.

Since I grew up when the drinking age was 18 (it turned 19 just before I turned 18) I can speak to this: there was a lot of binge drinking and alcohol abuse then too. Alcohol was really easy to get in high school since many seniors turned 18 while still in high school.

Americans and Europeans treat alcohol differently and it is cultural not just a matter of the age one is allowed to drink.

And if you look at alcohol dependency a lot of European countries have rates well above the rate in the US

Also look at alcohol related deaths

Lowering the legal drinking age to 18 would be a bad move in the US IMHO.

Lisadfst wrote:

A prestigious university near me has a serious alcohol abuse problem, like many universities in the developed world. I suggested to a former administrator that they should only select students who do not drink. Students who understand the wisdom - the history of alcohol is the history ruin. This would ensure the university is graduating the right kind of "leaders" and this in turn would benefit society.

The former administrator said no, the university would never do that. They need x number of students that can pay and graduate to meet the budget. They had no other idea to reduce drinking. It's a major problem but I believe my idea is a good one. Does anyone else agree? Any other ideas?

Your idea is a really good one if the goal is to reduce the number of colleges and people who go to college.

Yes, something needs to be done, but I was involved in trying to teach responsible alcohol use when I was in college and later as an administrator (I had an alcohol issue in college). Finally realized I was peeing into a hurricane.

I also think it is important to look at differences between those of the same age in and out of college. College certainly seems to be a culture where heavy drinking is encouraged (places where there are no Friday classes, frats/sororities, Saturday football games, etc). A person working probably is working 5 days/week and might be less likely to drink heavily until Friday night.

Northeast Person wrote:

I’ve worked at two very different universities. A small private school and a large public school. The private school was liberal on drinking and students never got in trouble. They were also very average in XC despite getting good recruits. The state school was a dry campus. Moderate recruits and very successful in XC. The drinking culture good or bad played a big role in the athletic department.

If the college was "liberal" on drinking then it likely is not going to punish students. Also I found some small private colleges much less willing to boot a student in order to save the tuition.

I'm at student at a Big 10 university in the Midwest that has several highly ranked academic and athletic programs (the school overall is pretty good; lots of good research and opportunities for students to take advantage of.) It is also one of the highest ranked party schools in the United States, and while no one likes to admit it, many students come here for the party culture and access to substance abuse.

Being here for a while has taught me (someone who enjoys alcohol and low risk substances, but who doesn't like to party too much, just hang out with friends and go to concerts too much) a few things.

1. You will never stop substance or alcohol use on American college campuses. Students are far too desperate to intoxicate themselves, have far too much money (or willingness to do anything to get money), and have way too much free time to stop substance abuse. It will not happen. There are cocaine, LSD, ecstasy, prescription pills and medications, and even worse substances everywhere. Prohibition will only make people more violent and more desperate.

2. The reasons why people use these substances (both legal and not legal) are very complicated and varied, and the reasons why people CONTINUE to use these substances are not. I assure you if someone on a college campus tries a substance and enjoys it, they will get more of it and they will continue to use it as long as it doesn't drive their wallet or friendships into the ground (and often that isn't enough.) Understanding why students try substances for the first time is critical to understanding how to limit the use of these more dangerous substances. I don't care about alcohol, weed, tobacco, or hallucinogens, but coke and stronger narcotics and prescriptions are a ravage to a person's body and are just not worth it. I would like to see these be less acceptable, and figure out how to make their use be both less taboo and also less "cool".

3. This leads me to my theory about why most people try these substances, which is not universally true but it is a start.

A lot of kids smoke and drink a fair amount in high school, but act like they did a lot more than they actually did (I was an outlier, I smoked way too much, and honestly, it's caused me to not have a strong desire to use stronger substances), and then they get to college and there are no parents, no teachers that have a large degree of interaction (compared to most high school teachers that you see once a day or once every other day), and there are no rules, drugs are very easy to get, and it is a lot easier, even in the most prestigious programs at my school, to "go out" 2-4 times a week, and consume substance every day. It's too easy to try and use drugs on a weekly/daily basis and face no repercussions.

4. As much as collegiate and university administrations openly decry alcohol and substance abuse, they also are in the back pocket of most Greek organizations on campus, and basically give most fraternities/sororities a pass to do whatever they like (although on my campus, recently they've cracked down, so that's a good step.) While I personally have no objection to frats buying excessive quantities of alcohol and weed and throwing a good party once a week, the rape culture and encouragement of blackout drinking is something that needs to be curbed (and anyone who says the two go hand in hand is dead wrong), and ultimately, this is where the problem lies. We as a society have decried underage sex, underage drinking, and drug use, and college becomes a place for people to lash out against those constraints, only to realize that these things are not as good as they're chalked up to be.

To end the destructive nature of partying, we first have to change our cultural attitudes toward sex (and it's procurement, because every guy here knows it's easier to get a drunk girl into bed), alcohol, and drugs. Anything outside of that exacerbates these problems.

It's interesting to watch from the outside American's regression. With the ongoing massive increase in ignorance come all the usual suspects, the hatred of science, conspiracy theorists, religious fanatics, etc., it was only a matter of time before the temperance movement reared it's head. I can only hope for my own personal enjoyment that large bands of raving religious fanatics start demanding a constitutional amendment to create prohibition. It was so successful the first time, well, if you measure success by the creation of crime. The future is here, Americans killing Americans, yee-haw.

2. The reasons why people use these substances (both legal and not legal) are very complicated and varied, and the reasons why people CONTINUE to use these substances are not. I assure you if someone on a college campus tries a substance and enjoys it, they will get more of it and they will continue to use it as long as it doesn't drive their wallet or friendships into the ground (and often that isn't enough.) Understanding why students try substances for the first time is critical to understanding how to limit the use of these more dangerous substances. I don't care about alcohol, weed, tobacco, or hallucinogens, but coke and stronger narcotics and prescriptions are a ravage to a person's body and are just not worth it. I would like to see these be less acceptable, and figure out how to make their use be both less taboo and also less "cool".

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You might want to check your facts here the effects of alcohol on the liver are well documented. Tobacco? Probably worse for your body than heroin.

http://www.drugfreeworld.org/drugfacts/heroin/long-term-effects.html

I am not all that sure that smoking weed is healthy--although people tend to smoke less weed than the number of cigarettes. Inhaling smoke into your lungs just does not seem like a good idea regardless of the source.

I find it very difficult to believe that most prospective students would not choose to go to a good university if they could not drink alcohol. Is alcohol that important? I have been out of school for years (drank there but quit for good years ago) but I can tell you with certainty that alcohol has ravaged society, both in the US and Europe (European universities have a major problem, too, I've seen it with my own eyes).

The benefits (pleasure?) are infinitely outweighed by the damaged done. The damage is all around, maybe in your own house. Certainly very close by. If anyone can't see this they must be in a stupor.

I agree. I rarely smoke cigarettes, and I'm not advocating that these things are healthy; but in my experience, you can smoke weed and cigarettes every day and get things done. The same is not true of any other substances I listed in my post, at least not in college. "Functional alcohol" is an oxymoron.

*alcoholic

This. I'm not suggesting you go on some outrageous quest to pass this legislation to let all 18 year olds drink, but don't be that school that makes all the kids hide their drinking. Its f*cking college, kids are doing to drink whether its allowed or not. Ex: Germany drinks a hell of a lot more than the U.S. per citizen, yet they have less than half as many alcohol poisonings yearly. They do it openly and teach people moderation early on. Your idea is hardly feasible and counterproductive.

empire decline wrote:

It's interesting to watch from the outside American's regression. With the ongoing massive increase in ignorance come all the usual suspects, the hatred of science, conspiracy theorists, religious fanatics, etc., it was only a matter of time before the temperance movement reared it's head. I can only hope for my own personal enjoyment that large bands of raving religious fanatics start demanding a constitutional amendment to create prohibition. It was so successful the first time, well, if you measure success by the creation of crime. The future is here, Americans killing Americans, yee-haw.

*sarc*Yeah, it's the religious fanatics destroying the US.*/sarc* Of course there are some "religious" fanatics who would destroy the US given the opportunity, but they have a higher tendency to be banned from traveling to the US .

Sarcasmo wrote:

empire decline wrote:

It's interesting to watch from the outside American's regression. With the ongoing massive increase in ignorance come all the usual suspects, the hatred of science, conspiracy theorists, religious fanatics, etc., it was only a matter of time before the temperance movement reared it's head. I can only hope for my own personal enjoyment that large bands of raving religious fanatics start demanding a constitutional amendment to create prohibition. It was so successful the first time, well, if you measure success by the creation of crime. The future is here, Americans killing Americans, yee-haw.

*sarc*Yeah, it's the religious fanatics destroying the US.*/sarc* Of course there are some "religious" fanatics who would destroy the US given the opportunity, but they have a higher tendency to be banned from traveling to the US .

I'm unsure how many human beings were killed by "religious fanatics" in the US, but Planned Parenthood kills more about 350,000 innocent human beings annually. But nearly all Democrat and some Republican politicians, "The New York Times," and others depict elective abortion as health care. Employers are forced to subsidize this "health care" and taxpayers to subsidize the entities that do such killing, even in the case (in the last few weeks) of the minor illegal alien. Oregon also recently enacted legislation compelling taxpayers to effectively subsidize elective abortions for illegal aliens.

mcvred wrote:

*alcoholic

Just put an end to frats.

BlimeyMate wrote:

Just put an end to frats.

If you lowered the drinking age to 19 you would kill frats. All they are is underage drinking clubs. Once people are old enough to go to a bar or club, they go there. That's why being 23 years old at a frat party is considered "old".

That being said a lot of the over drinking that takes place in college is simply due to "stage of life". It's the first time people are living away from home, away from parents, and it's a time in life where you are being very social. You are dating, finding a girl or guy that you might want to spend more time with, alcohol is called a social lubricant for a reason. It helps people get through the anxiety of dating and meeting others.

How many puking drunk 40 year olds do you see at tailgate parties (ok a few) but at that stage of life it is considered to be completely unacceptable to get that wasted. To me going out too late and drinking too much is really just part and parcel of being a 20ish year old. It's the activity of youth. Something you grow out of.

Add 3 mandatory freshman classes to be taken 2 weeks before fall semester:

DUI 101

Emergency Room 101 (meet Friday and Saturday nights)

Morgue Attendant 101

Lisadfst wrote:

A prestigious university near me has a serious alcohol abuse problem, like many universities in the developed world. I suggested to a former administrator that they should only select students who do not drink. Students who understand the wisdom - the history of alcohol is the history ruin. This would ensure the university is graduating the right kind of "leaders" and this in turn would benefit society.

The former administrator said no, the university would never do that. They need x number of students that can pay and graduate to meet the budget. They had no other idea to reduce drinking. It's a major problem but I believe my idea is a good one. Does anyone else agree? Any other ideas?

Plato's Laws gave us a layout for the four cardinal virtues: prudence, moderation, courage and justice. Kant via generations of many other philosophers extended that to seven.

Plato's Laws and later Aristotle's Political Treatise via Plato's teachings argue that one needs to learn a leisurely medium between deficiency and excess in order to cultivate virtue. Conceptually deficiency and excess are not dichotomies where there is one right answer but rather a spectrum of possibilities in which one takes aim at the center or most virtuous point on the spectrum and experiences accordingly. This is kind of like archery or darts. If you miss the first bullseye, you re-align and keept attempting until you do. Both ancient philosophers specifically discuss drinking as a youth and how it shapes moderation through prudence (or wisdom). They argue that one needs to technically get wasted and act like a moron in order to eventually find that virtuous center because if we remove that choice then we limit their knowledge in a sense.

So I am all for increased moderation to prevent bad habits but we cant completely restrict it. Personally, I would like to see people take a hands on approach to drinking a few times under supervision where they are able to test their .bac, learn the OWI and intoxication laws, learn their limits, learn dangers of drinking, average intake at detox (.19), etc. Maybe it should be mandatory to have high end breathalyzers so people know what their doing.

You grow out of? Not the old friends I've met over the last few years. They're still partying like they did in high school and early 20's. Throwing up off a balcony? Getting dui's? Losing their jobs? It's pathetic. They were all middle class smart kids, great to stellar grades, talented, athletic. Not any more!

All they talk about is how wasted they got the week or night before. All of them are medically "sick". None can climb more than a few flights of stairs with stopping and huffing and puffing. Many of them are overweight or obese. Everyone, except 1 used to be trim and slim.

I run 5 miles daily in about 45 minutes. Not very fast but so what I'm in great physical shape. I grew out but many do not. By the way I made it a point to ask all these old friends to give running a try. All of them declined.

I'm surprised by the level of rational discourse in this thread, even including the religious and political swipes it nets out well ahead of most threads. Still, everyone should realize the OP wasn't completely serious, just setting up a thread for more vitriolic flame throwing. I don't think those replying directly to OP got that. Just a little public service info for ya. Carry on.

You’re probably like 19 and run XC. You have no grasp on reality. For what it’s worth, I haven’t had a drink in three months as a middle class adult.