Going out 4-5 minutes faster than the shape you think you're in sounds rough. If you're feeling like this is one of your last shots at the OTQ, I don't know, maybe go for it.
If not, go out on 2:22 pace and enjoy the last 10k of rolling up people who blew up out of the 2:18 pack.
And thanks for bringing the thread back. This has been a cool one to follow.
Dreamer, you could take a shot and I bet the adrenaline alone could carry you through the half. But the odds are certainly against it turning out well. The marathon is an unforgiving beast. I'd probably shoot for the 2:22. With that being said, if this is the dream and this is your shot? And as far as being a master, it can be done: http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/sports/other/4445794-41-olympic-marathon-trials-suddenly-became-goal-again-loeffler
Otq dreamer wrote:
With CIM this week I am hoping a few people are going for it.
I’m in 2:22-23 shape. Which would be a 3-4 minute PR. Should I roll with the 2:18 group and hold on for life? Or should I play it safe?
I’m currently planning on going out quickly and seeing how I feel at 5K.
How do you know you are in 2:22 shape? If you ran a half recently that indicates that, then perhaps you should stick to your gun and go out in 1:11 for the half. The last 10k is completely flat and even a slight downhill, so if youre strong, you can hold your pace to the finish. If you think you're in 2:22 shape off of training, then that's a little tricky. I'm not sure if you're the type to race better than training, or vise versa. I know too many guys/gals that train very well and "should" run 2:15-2:18 based off their training, but can't put it together and run like 2:26 or something like that.
As you know, the half marathon is probably the best and safest way to predict your fitness, so I hope you're basing it off of that. I would also say, if you feel really good, just go with a 2:20 group and take in as much fuel as possible along the course and you may surprise yourself. Going out in 1:10/1:11 through the half compared to 1:09 is a whole different world. I really hope you crush your PR and tell us how it went! Godspeed out there!
I thought the thread needed a kickstart and I wanted to stay honest that I’m not a troll. There has to be a few people running CIM going for 2:18.
I agree that pacing for 2:23-24 and 2:18 are different beasts and I don’t have the legs to run 5:17s for the full 26.2.
I think 5:25-30s are realistic given my build up.
It’s been a long year of solid running. I’ve taken as much advice from this thread as I can and tried to apply it. My last workout was 6x3 mile with fast 1 mile recovery running so I’m definitely marathon ready.
I’ve done about 12 runs over 20 miles and plenty of specific long marathon workouts. I’m still lacking some of the speed required, but I feel I have built the strength.
Ghost of Cougar,
I agree it’s hard to guess a pace, and most runners get it totally wrong. This will be the 6th marathon so I have a reasonable feel for what might happen to me on race Day. If my healthy and 100% on Sunday I suspect I’m ready to mud stomp my PR iof 2:26 unless I mess up the pacing and go for 2:20 and blow up.
I’m still prepared to be humbled so I can’t guarantee anything. I’ve dropped from 2:36,2:33,2:28,2:26 and my last training 23 miler was near my marathon PR so I’m hoping for a great day in CIM and 2:24 is my first goal but I suspect I’ll go out in 1:11:30 and see what happens.
Ok like predicted above my pacing strategy didn’t work as well as I had hoped.
I went out in 1:10:40 which is basically my half marathon PR, then I started to crack slightly......and at 19-20 my legs faded nicely to 2:26:30. Not a a complete crash but close. I have to say running 2:19 is going to take a miracle for me, but I’ll be back to Chicago or Houston next year.
Ouch! Why did you start so fast???
It may have seemed crazy, but some of your workouts were insane too.
I'm certain you could have run 2:24, but you've run 2:26 before and won some great masters titles, so while I have never been overly aggressive early myself, I don't blame you one bit for going for a big time. What did you have to lose?
I'm always impressed by your willingness to take some big risks man. Way to show the testicular fortitude. And you earned a third masters marathon title at a major race to boot.
Great job. I know things didn't workout the way you wanted, but you went for it and still ran a great time. You are probably close to 68 flat shape for the 1/2 which would put you right at ~2:23 for the full marathon. You just need to apply what you learned at CIM and try again. Keep it up and a big marathon PR is close.
Wow! Quick first half, but I bet you were in a solid pack and running in a pack is hard to turn away from. You got some good experience out there and congrats on holding it together, it couldn't been a lot worse.
What is your plan now, besides rest and recover?
Boston or Grandma's marathon could be a good choice for a spring marathon, unless you want to focus on some speed this spring. I'm hoping for a lot of people to race Chicago next year. I have a feeling that will be the next big push for many Americans to hit their OTQ. Boston could be good for those that already registered or willing to ask for an entry with potential to run fast, and Grandma's will have another decent group of runners in that low 2:20 range.
Your progression is very impressive. Your body seems to be responding to the stress of training and another jump in performance is just around the corner. Stay healthy and focused!
AlabamaHustler wrote:
This thread is great, much like older LR threads.
I'm not on the same level, but still think there's lots to take from this. Ran a 2:32 this fall on my 5th marathon this fall, have slowly progressed down over the past 5 years and typically average about 90-100 mile weeks throughout a cycle. I've got a few questions from the previous discussion:
1) Its 26 weeks to Boston I believe, so I was planning on doing a massive base for the next ten weeks like what has been talked about here - no workouts, no races, just easy running. If I'm going to try and put up 2 to 3 months of 100-110 miles per week, would this include a long run? And if so how long? I was always under the impression that while doing high milage during the base period, it wasn't necessary to start getting into the 20+ mile runs until closer to the race.
2) What would ones typical week look like at 110+ miles? And what distance should doubles be? I've typically done doubles three days a week of 5am/10pm, and on on non-double days done single runs of 10-12 miles. Would doing 10am/10pm be too much?
Again, great thread, would love to hear more.
Bump - curious as well
Hazel wrote:
AlabamaHustler wrote:
This thread is great, much like older LR threads.
I'm not on the same level, but still think there's lots to take from this. Ran a 2:32 this fall on my 5th marathon this fall, have slowly progressed down over the past 5 years and typically average about 90-100 mile weeks throughout a cycle. I've got a few questions from the previous discussion:
1) Its 26 weeks to Boston I believe, so I was planning on doing a massive base for the next ten weeks like what has been talked about here - no workouts, no races, just easy running. If I'm going to try and put up 2 to 3 months of 100-110 miles per week, would this include a long run? And if so how long? I was always under the impression that while doing high milage during the base period, it wasn't necessary to start getting into the 20+ mile runs until closer to the race.
2) What would ones typical week look like at 110+ miles? And what distance should doubles be? I've typically done doubles three days a week of 5am/10pm, and on on non-double days done single runs of 10-12 miles. Would doing 10am/10pm be too much?
Again, great thread, would love to hear more.
Bump - curious as well
From a 2 time OTQ.
I do the 20+ weekly long runs all year long. When done at a moderate pace say 6:20-30 they don't take much out of you when you've been doing 110+ MPW for years. If you've been in the 90-100 range maybe alternate between 16-18 and 20 milers each week in the base period.
As far as what a week looks like. For me, a typical week would look like:
MWF Easy 11 miles morning 5-6 easy afternoon. T/Th Fartlek or Intervals 12-13 miles morning, 5-6 easy afternoon. Sat Tempo usually 8 or 9 miles sometimes 10 miles, overall 13-14 miles, 5-6 in the afternoon. Su 20-22 miles. May skip the double 1 of the non-Sunday long run days.
I would not recommend the double be longer than 6. I think you get more benefit and recovery from a 12/6 then 10/10. I do know guys who do 10/10 but that was never for me. I think doubles in the afternoon after a hard workout in the AM are great at helping me feel better the next day than if I take the afternoon off. I would not recommend short doubles of 3-4 miles every day either. I would push it to 5-6 miles and double fewer days rather than shorter doubles every day.
I also do not recommend adding more doubles to shorten the longer daily run. Having longer of your daily easy runs 11-13 miles has a huge benefit to building the strength for running a competitive marathon. I've seen negative results from guys who lengthened the double to 6-8 miles in order to shorten the daily run to 9 or 10 miles.
Awesome advice, thanks.
I tried doing the Summer of Malmo and was fine averaging 80mpw w/ workouts but got hurt at the tail-end of a few 100 mile weeks.
In my return to running, how many weeks/months do you recommend spending at a mileage level before bumping up safely? Eg, 70, 70, 70, 80 for a given month to put me back at 100 in 3-4 months?
Avocado's Number wrote:
After your fall marathon, cut out all racing and interval training and focus on boosting mileage to no less than 100-120 mpw, running twice a day almost every day. Training pace should be slow enough to allow a pretty rapid build-up in mileage. Training pace can get quicker as you adapt to the higher mileage, but continue to avoid racing and intervals for at least 16-18 weeks.
If you're in condition to run 2:25-2:27 on a record-quality course, you're in better condition than I was doing similar mileage (60-80 mpw at most) before increasing to 100-120 mpw. For me, the difference between running on 6-80 mpw and 100-120 mpw was huge.
Does this huge building of the base apply exclusively to elites?
Would an elderly(age 61) running 50 miles per week for 3:30 marathons experience a big benefit from a big base phase?
I'd like to know where op is now