Ketogenic diets extend lifespan, improve memory and health in mice

Athletics Illustrated wrote:

I agree. Off the charts. Here is what I have experienced in my 45 days of high-fat, low-carb, low-protein and no refined carb eating:

Bonkless on a 163K (101 miles) bike ride with no carb or carb supplementation taken before or during ride, could have kept going - ill prepared for ride with longest ride in two years about 70K.

Dropped about 20-25 pounds so quick, almost not sure when it happened.

No bloat. No gas. No pain in the abdomen, which I was so accustomed to, I thought it was normal (to do with digestion).

Less of an afternoon nod.

...

Negative: running uphill I seem to spew lactic acid like a fire hose.

Short answer: for performance, a combo keto/sugar diet is needed for me. Pick your carbs carefully and you will have no gas/bloat!

I had similar experience switching to a much higher fat diet (lots coconut oil, 100% cream in coffee etc), not sure if I went into full ketosis, but my cholesterol went up about 40% (about equal HDL/LDL). Had the same bonkless feeling during long rides. Eating dinner at 6pm, and breakfast 12-14 hrs later was no problem whereas before I *had* to have evening snak.

Big problem High fat only worked for solo rides where I dictated the pace (still pretty hard, >31kph for 150-185k, >1500m climbing). Anytime I did even medium rides in a peloton of fast guys, cycling off the front-to-back of peloton, where your HR quickly changes by 20bpm, I was spent, exhausted, heavy legged, I dreaded it! Adding sugar back in to the mix got me thru these harder variable efforts. I ran for decades, but I don't think most runners appreciate the HR shifts in cycling, unless they race XC.

In short, high fat only worked for me at low to maybe medium-hi pace at best, and a steady pace. This is unrealistic for racing or keeping up the gang.

As for bloating/gas/pain, this is common for many bikers because the packaged food (Cliff bars etc) is recipe for disaster! I got rid of pretty much all gut issues, and cured my heartburn (likely due to backpressure from gas/bloating) by following a FODMAP diet. My afternoon nod-offs also went away, in fact I regularly felt like sleeping half an hr after breakfast. In other words, it's not that carbs that were bad for me, it was the *type* of carbs.

Brief FODMAP primer: it's a diet of avoidance, avoiding foods that contain highly fermentable carbs that (for some people) cause gas - unfortunately it's a lot of good food to avoid, and almost every food-bar is loaded with them: all dried fruit, apples, pears apricots, lactose, chocolate, some nuts, wheat, soy protein, cauliflower, broccoli (spinach is ok!) barley, lactose, beans and many more (fats and proteins are fine assuming they're not housed in the above foods). Your food bars were probably most of this stuff. Everyone reacts differently, e.g. I was mostly fine with wheat, and usually you can cheat if doses are small.

p.s. Maybe i'm lucky, my weight is still the same as college days (30 yrs later) and is largely unaffected by diet, but m diet is very clean, virtually no processed foods. I was lightest (153lbs) after a few years of marathoning on low-fat high-carb vegan diet, which left me anorexic looking, exhausted and near zero ferritin levels. I was fattest, low 160s, on my high fat diet, but overall these are pretty small fluctuations. I ran my fastest marathons when I weighed about 157. I'm still eating much higher fat than before and weigh under 160.

This makes sense in the context of when Dr. Tim Noakes was asked what the right diet was for everyone ala Banting, "what should everyone eat?"

He said that you have to figure out what works for you, we are all experiments of one.

I am only 45 days in and still working it out.

At 51, from my perspective, I don't care enough about top-end fitness. I was never fast and am now older. But I don't want to feel pathetic....so like I say I am working it out.

I rarely ever used gels or bars or supplementation even at my fittest. In fact, my long runs of 3:00 - 3:30 were fasted with no gels or bars. My friends would question my sanity, but we finished together, and they sucked on gels like pacifiers.

I am not really a cyclist. Might have cycled 20 times this summer. And I prefer to cycle alone, so I wont get into groups and get near anaerobic for any stretch.

It's fascinating stuff though. Especially since much of the ancillary info outside of performance-related outcomes, are not in text books yet.

Athletics Illustrated wrote:

This makes sense in the context of when Dr. Tim Noakes was asked what the right diet was for everyone ala Banting, "what should everyone eat?"

He said that you have to figure out what works for you, we are all experiments of one.

Noakes himself does not do keto because he says he needs more protein to maintain muscle mass.

Fair enough. And that speaks to him figuring out what works for him, I guess. Although I never heard him say that myself. I know Drs Phinney and Vanek say you need very little protein in or not in a ketogenic or LCHF diet, or moderate protein.

Weightlifters for example, way overblow the value of jamming protein down their throats.

I know Noakes said that his diet is more Banting than it is anything, but there must be some ketosis going on with Noakes because he speaks of all the benefits he is experiencing like running longer without tiring, running as he did years ago, etc etc etc.

I read - no idea if it is true - that having coconut oil is automatically a ketone releaser or something to that effect. Based on his Banting diet, I would argue he is in and out of ketosis all of the time.

Somebody beat to the "Blue Zones." It studied the diets of the 5 longest-living populations on the planet and discovered these commonalities. I have not yet read the book, but it sounds like basically a Mediterranean style diet.

**95/5 RULE

Eat Plants. 95 percent of your food should be fruits, vegetables, grains, greens, beans, and fruits. Use olive oil to sauté and spices flavor vegetables. Feel free to eat a cup (cooked) of whole grains daily.

**LIMIT MEAT

Think of meat as a celebratory food. Portions should be no larger than a deck of cards, once or twice a week. Avoid processed meats such as hot dogs, bacon and sausages.

**FISH IS FINE

Enjoy fish up to three times weekly. Wild-caught salmon or smaller fish like sardines, trout, snapper, cod, and anchovies are okay choices. Limit portion sizes to 3 ounces (about the size of the palm of your hand.)

**DIMINISH DAIRY

Avoid dairy when possible. If cheese is a must, try ice-cube size portions of sheep (pecorino) or goat (feta) cheese to flavor foods. If you eat eggs, limit intake to 3/week.

**DAILY DOSE OF BEANS

Eat a cup of beans daily spread out across breakfast, lunch or dinner. All beans count, including tofu. They contain high quality protein and fiber. If you buy canned beans, avoid added salt, sugar and chemicals.

**SLASH SUGAR

Consume only 28 grams (7 teaspoons) of added sugar daily. Reserve cookies, cakes, and candies for special occasions. Read labels and avoid foods with more than 8 grams of sugar. Make honey your go-to sweetener.

**SNACK ON NUTS

Eat a handful of nuts daily: almonds, pistachios, walnuts, hazelnuts, sunflower seeds, pumpkin seeds, Brazil nuts, and peanuts. Try different nuts so you don’t tire of them. Avoid sugar-coated nuts.

**SOUR ON BREAD

Eat only 100% whole grain breads or authentic sourdough bread made from live cultures. Limit bread to two slices daily. Chose whole grain corn tortillas over flour tortillas. Avoid white breads and wraps.

**GO WHOLLY WHOLE

Try to eat only whole foods or processed foods with fewer than 5 ingredients: If it’s manufactured in a plant, avoid it. If it comes from a plant, eat it.

**DRINK MOSTLY WATER

Drink six glasses of water daily. Feel free to drink unsweetened teas and coffee. Enjoy Wine at 5 with friends or with Blue Zones inspired meals. Avoid all sugar-sweetened and diet sodas.

BeanEater wrote:

Somebody beat to the "Blue Zones." It studied the diets of the 5 longest-living populations on the planet and discovered these commonalities. I have not yet read the book, but it sounds like basically a Mediterranean style diet.

.

And not a single person that lived to 100 used the internet before turning 50 or so. Clearly avoiding the internet for the first 50 years of your life is the key to living a long time:)

Unless you can keep everything else the same, you have no way of figuring out if the people are living a long time because of the diet or because of other lifestyle choices. Doing that is insanely hard.

And as far as translating mouse studies to humans. Sometimes it works out. A lot of times it doesn't. And if you are going with mouse studies, you might was well go down the extreme caloric reduction path.

asdfasdfa wrote:

BeanEater wrote:

Somebody beat to the "Blue Zones." It studied the diets of the 5 longest-living populations on the planet and discovered these commonalities. I have not yet read the book, but it sounds like basically a Mediterranean style diet.

.

Unless you can keep everything else the same, you have no way of figuring out if the people are living a long time because of the diet or because of other lifestyle choices. Doing that is insanely hard.

.

So, you think it's a coincidence that the populations that live the longest eat a nearly identical diet? I think the study implies that other factors come into play -- lower stress living, cohesive family, active lifestyle. My family has been on a Mediterranean-style diet for several years now, plus we're all active. I'll post back it it works. If you don't hear from me in 60 years then something went wrong. Please send help!

Noakes is very strictly keto because of his diabetes.

Reflex wrote:

Noakes is very strictly keto because of his diabetes.

He says he goes in and out of keto because he needs more protein.

O P wrote:

Get used to seeing more data pile up on the benefits of a ketogenic diet.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/biotech/sd-me-ketogenic-health-20170905-story.html

+13%= 7-10 years increase in human lifespan, with better health and lower obesity.

That's great if you're a mouse. Humans............not so much. The bulk of epidemiological studies point to a low fat, high COMPLEX (not simple) carbohydrate, low protein diet (10%, 80%, 10% as expressed as a % of total calories), as optimal for reducing the incidence and prevalence of 'western" style degenerative disease, IE atherosclerotic vascular disease, diabetes, hypertension, and certain forms of cancer primarily breast and colon. Add daily exercise and not smoking to the mix and you have the recipe for a long productive life................assuming of course that you're not a genetic train wreck, which I have seen happen on occasion.

exthrower wrote:

MightyMouse wrote:

I put my mouse on a ketogenic diet years about 9 years ago. Best thing I ever did. He runs circles around the other mice at the mouse park. I don't what I'd do without him, but he does.

Lol....Does he have big glutes?

About average. Today he wrapped up his world record attempt on the hamster wheel. 520 miles in 7 days but Guinness says his rat witness doesn't count. Next up is a transcon attempt to raise awareness for ketogenic diets.

This is anecdotal of my own personal experience:

I've always had high cholesterol- both bad and good- when I was a scrawny 130lb to 175 lb, it was always high.

I tried Keto to trim down and it worked amazingly. Similarly, it lowered my cholesterol to "healthy" levels. It was super weird, I literally ate just hamburgers and cheese and all sorts of "crap".

Eventually I got off of it because I was getting tired eating the same stuff and I started getting back into running. I just didn't have that spring in my legs like with carbs.

Now, I'm running more than ever, eating a "balanced diet", and my last cholesterol reading was once again very bad. The doctor was thinking of putting me on cholesterol meds! Idk. Still debating on going back on it.

Jeremy R wrote:

This is anecdotal of my own personal experience:

I've always had high cholesterol- both bad and good- when I was a scrawny 130lb to 175 lb, it was always high.

I tried Keto to trim down and it worked amazingly. Similarly, it lowered my cholesterol to "healthy" levels. It was super weird, I literally ate just hamburgers and cheese and all sorts of "crap".

Eventually I got off of it because I was getting tired eating the same stuff and I started getting back into running. I just didn't have that spring in my legs like with carbs.

Now, I'm running more than ever, eating a "balanced diet", and my last cholesterol reading was once again very bad. The doctor was thinking of putting me on cholesterol meds! Idk. Still debating on going back on it.

Interesting response to the keto diet. You perhaps are one of the genetic anomalies I alluded to in the last post. Epidemiological studies, by their design do not account for those at both ends of the genetic spectrum. Individual results will vary, to various extremes on either side of the average. Some vary a lot, but they are few and far between. Example.........I gave a lecture some years ago on diet, exercise, smoking cessation on the reduction in risk for the diseases i mentioned earlier. An older guy in his 70's (relative to me, at the time as I was in my early 30's) came up to me following the lecture and said he was a 7th Day Adventist, had an ideal cholesterol (less than 100 plus his age), normal blood pressure, didn't smoke, exercised regularly, was a vegetarian. I asked him why he came to the lecture, his reply was that he had just had triple vessel bypass due to severe CAD. No amount of diet, exercise etc could compensate for his genetics. Had he not been doing things the way he was, he likely would have had the issue much earlier in life, IE in his 40's. If i were you, and the keto diet does not fit with your lifestyle, I'd probably opt for the meds. They are pretty safe, and quite effective. Whats your TC now and your age?

That makes no sense, keto is compatible with any protein level. He has said he keeps carbs negligible and stays in keto.

keto this wrote:

Reflex wrote:

Noakes is very strictly keto because of his diabetes.

He says he goes in and out of keto because he needs more protein.

http://www.enduranceplanet.com/dr-tim-noakes-and-dr-phil-maffetone-guide-to-hydration-and-electrolytes-hyponatremia-prevention-and-why-health-matters-above-all/

I know your first name is "Old", but try to keep current, okay?http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(17)32241-9/abstractNo correlation in 18 countries between saturated fat and mortality. Low fat associated with higher cancer rates.

OLD SMTC SOB wrote:

O P wrote:

Get used to seeing more data pile up on the benefits of a ketogenic diet.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/biotech/sd-me-ketogenic-health-20170905-story.html

+13%= 7-10 years increase in human lifespan, with better health and lower obesity.

That's great if you're a mouse. Humans............not so much. The bulk of epidemiological studies point to a low fat, high COMPLEX (not simple) carbohydrate, low protein diet (10%, 80%, 10% as expressed as a % of total calories), as optimal for reducing the incidence and prevalence of 'western" style degenerative disease, IE atherosclerotic vascular disease, diabetes, hypertension, and certain forms of cancer primarily breast and colon. Add daily exercise and not smoking to the mix and you have the recipe for a long productive life................assuming of course that you're not a genetic train wreck, which I have seen happen on occasion.

O P wrote:

I know your first name is "Old", but try to keep current, okay?

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736

(17)32241-9/abstract

No correlation in 18 countries between saturated fat and mortality. Low fat associated with higher cancer rates.

OLD SMTC SOB wrote:

That's great if you're a mouse. Humans............not so much. The bulk of epidemiological studies point to a low fat, high COMPLEX (not simple) carbohydrate, low protein diet (10%, 80%, 10% as expressed as a % of total calories), as optimal for reducing the incidence and prevalence of 'western" style degenerative disease, IE atherosclerotic vascular disease, diabetes, hypertension, and certain forms of cancer primarily breast and colon. Add daily exercise and not smoking to the mix and you have the recipe for a long productive life................assuming of course that you're not a genetic train wreck, which I have seen happen on occasion.

Please. I've forgotten more then the sum total of what you know. That being said, I'm referring to atherosclerosis and the various manifestations, IE CVA, MI, etc. All cause mortality may or may not be lower, depending on mitigating environmental, genetic and other factors. And the question of dietary fat intake, low cholesterol and cancer has been debated for years with no resolution. An association does not imply cause and effect.

These are the best guidelines to follow.

The fact of the matter is meat- and dairy-heavy diets SIGNIFICANTLY increase the risk of cancer and heart disease.

So, your little diets and weight loss schemes may work in the near-term, but you will pay the price later if you eat artery-clogging foods. Also, dairy = osteoperosis.

OLD SMTC SOB wrote:

An association does not imply cause and effect.

Yes it does. It does not prove cause and effect, but it does imply it. That's kinda the whole point of research.

Nope.

Latest science, not yet in the text books say this isn't true. Maybe you would treat the lifestyle as a diet, I don't. It is indeed a lifestyle.

You do know that the latest science refutes the whole saturated fat is bad lie, yes?