Ketogenic diets extend lifespan, improve memory and health in mice

I have been below 10% bodyfat my entire adult life, even when I ate high-carb and felt like crap most of time and had to shovel in the sugar for any run over two hours. "no bad foods". Wow, you could seriously start your own fad diet with that claptrap.

healthy weight wrote:

Ho hum. Another fatty who lost weight on a gimmick diet and now is an evangelist for it. There are no bad foods, only bad diets. Eat balanced and an appropriate amount of total calories for your metabolic rate, and, oh, maybe learn a little nutritional biochemistry.

O P wrote:

He/you called me a liar, I rebutted clearly with facts, and at least gave him/you the benefit of the doubt that he might be merely ignorant. And feel free to ignore the clinical evidence I posted in the OP. That is the key in maintaining a proper level of benighted self-importance and psuedo-authority.

I did not call you a liar. I did not ignore any clinical evidence. I didn't even mention clinical evidence at all. You have accused me of 2 things that I did not do. You are being delusional and mean. You are also misinformed.

My main points were that:

- you should not insult others

- no one knows what cavemen ate for sure

- you don't seem to know the differences between stats, science, and logical arguments

Reread this more than once so you don't make another mistake.

O P wrote:

discredited. Markers of inflammation are far more important, and most modern diseases are related to systemic inflammtion.

You're kinda hinting at the "oh noes, inflammation" quackery that is popular now among keto proselytes. At least you didn't say inflammation causes most diseases and can be avoided if we'll just see the light and go keto.

O P wrote:

Ntsa wrote:

Your link doesn't work, but if you are talking about the PURE study, the authors explicitly state that it doesn't support LCHF.

LCHF is a sensible alternative for some people, but if it's so great, why do the zealots have to lie so much and why do they have to invoke the great carb conspiracy nonsense?

And shut up about the govt guidelines. Fat consumption went UP after the low fat guidelines.

You sir, are quite ignorant or a liar.[/quote]

Interesting posts, personally I have cut down on red meat (to 1 occasionally 2 times per week). Cut back on sugar too, especially chocolate and cheese and I look great. But I have found yoghurt to be good though. But the bottom chart simply does not show sugar harming overall life expectancy averages. Place a life expectancy chart next to this chart and they would be almost perfectly correlated. Runners need carbs, if they are serious. But everything in moderation.

Aren't they saying butter is now good for you?

There was an interesting theory that fat people and short people (dwarfs) are less likely to get cancer.

luv2run wrote:

O P wrote:

Get used to seeing more data pile up on the benefits of a ketogenic diet.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/biotech/sd-me-ketogenic-health-20170905-story.html

+13%= 7-10 years increase in human lifespan, with better health and lower obesity.

And what percentage of findings in mice translate to humans?

We have cured cancer in lab mice maybe fifty thousand times in fifty thousand different ways, yet still no cure for in humans.

Are you still doing?

exthrower wrote:

I followed this type of diet for 12 years and made tremendous gains in strength and overall health.. Eggs, red meat salads, veggies, fruit....

I started a keto diet about 5-6 months ago. Didn't have much weight to lose (unless you are talking about extremely fit) and ended up losing about 10lbs, mostly around the waist. Am now 157 pounds and I'm 6 ft tall. I feel great and like the OP I also do intermittent fasting (almost everyday) and can do long runs fasted without the need to eat anything. I'm mostly training for 5ks and do 2 track workouts per week and a long run. One of the track workouts has V02max type intervals such as 200s, 400s or 800s and the other one is either a longer interval type of workout which I alternate every other week with a tempo run. Didn't feel like the keto diet has impacted my performance whatsoever. I'm running the same times I was running before and am older. I might actually be getting faster as I'm not getting injured anymore and will keep improving throughout the year. I feel like the decreased inflammation really helps recovering from workouts. As for the claims of longevity, I guess we will find out for ourselves, won't we?

Thanks for your post. Sounds like my experience right down to you being exactly the same height and weight. Keep on running and keep the engine humming!

O P wrote:

Get used to seeing more data pile up on the benefits of a ketogenic diet.

I put my mouse on a ketogenic diet years about 9 years ago. Best thing I ever did. He runs circles around the other mice at the mouse park. I don't what I'd do without him, but he does.

I'll go keto when I see Kenyans doing the same, and still winning.

The typical Kenyan athlete diet is 76.5% carbs. 10% protein.

70% of their diet comes from ultra high glycemic foods (corn, sugar, rice):

ugali,(corn) with 23 percent of total calories

sugar, with 20 percent of all calories

rice, at 14 percent

milk, hitting 13 percent

https://rbgsocialclub.wordpress.com/2012/09/06/kenyas-elite-runners-a-study-on-the-diet-of-african-champions/

The Hadza tribe of east Africa at times throughout the year, use honey for 70% of their dietary needs!

Fitness does not equal health. Life expectancy in Kenya = 62 yearsAlso, for every genetic outlier that we see and hear about, there are many thousands of unfortunates who do not perform as well and suffer from malnutrition on this diet. What saves many is that they still have a physically demanding lifestyle that protects them from the obesity and sedentary woes of us in the west. That will likely change, as it has in China and elsewhere, as the obesity and diabetes epidemic spreads.OTOH the average Kalenjin grows up in a much different environment than those of us in the west. Their response to the foods they train on will be much different, due to genetics, gut microbiome, farming practices of the food you consume, etc.. If you respond in the same way, consider yourself lucky- temporarily. Insulin-sensitivity will take a hit so that your physical decline is assured unless you take drastic measures later in life. As a parallel, taking near-lethal doses of PED drugs can extract phenomenal performances as well. This does not mean that taking hormones and stimulants are healthy and sustainable either. The choices are yours, it is your body to take these gambles with.

Kenyan wannabe wrote:

I'll go keto when I see Kenyans doing the same, and still winning.

The typical Kenyan athlete diet is 76.5% carbs. 10% protein.

70% of their diet comes from ultra high glycemic foods (corn, sugar, rice):

ugali,(corn) with 23 percent of total calories

sugar, with 20 percent of all calories

rice, at 14 percent

milk, hitting 13 percent

https://rbgsocialclub.wordpress.com/2012/09/06/kenyas-elite-runners-a-study-on-the-diet-of-african-champions/

The Hadza tribe of east Africa at times throughout the year, use honey for 70% of their dietary needs!

I have no interest to possibly extend my lifespan by some crazy diet. I prefer to eat when I'm hungry, and eat well then. I have no time or interest to follow a diet consisting 5-6 small meals per day either. I eat more when I train harder, because I'm hungrier then.

O P wrote:

That will likely change, as it has in China and elsewhere, as the obesity and diabetes epidemic spreads.

This is true:

O P wrote:

That will likely change, as it has in China and elsewhere, as the obesity and diabetes epidemic spreads.

Diabetes:

Ketogenic works for some, has no affect on others and actually makes some people more sluggish. Everybody's metabolism functions differently.

Long term keto would hinder any serious endurance athlete.

ntsa wrote:

O P wrote:

That will likely change, as it has in China and elsewhere, as the obesity and diabetes epidemic spreads.

Diabetes:

https://jesseatsfruit.files.wordpress.com/2017/01/diabetes-death-rate.png

That was nearly 100 years ago. These days other countries are eating more fat and catching up to us in diabetes.

The low life expectancy of Kenyans is primarily an issue of extremely poor health care standards, disease and infant mortality, not carb vs. keto diet.

I will agree with your point on environment/gut biome, genetics etc. Many indigenous peoples have extremely high rates of Type II diabetes, partly due 1000 of years on a higher fat diet, and now eating garbage carbs, low quality fats (pizza "cheese", despite many being lactose intolerant), and hi sat protein sources (wild game meat is much lower in sat fat). Switchjing back to diet high in omega 3 typically reverses Type II diabetes and obesity.

If you have time, google the Blue Zone longevity studies - the longest living cultures, those with the most centurions per capita (upto 10X more than average), do *not* eat a keto diet, and they also eat (in moderation) white bread/rice, but primarily a lot of veg/fruit/nuts/oils and some meat. These cultures are in areas of Japan and the Mediterranean. I'll post more if I have time - off for a workout now.

The cognitive dissonance on this thread is off the charts. Enjoy your achy, insulin-resistant, aging muffin-top runs my carbo-stuffing friends.

Reminiscent of the pushback against Semmelwis by his peers in the 1800's:

http://www.methodquarterly.com/2014/11/handwashing/