Very low T levels at age 21, prescribed gel, should I take it? PLEASE HELP

Yes, an actual endo.

See these sorts of things regularly in my practice. There is such a thing as isolated secondary hypogonadism (low T, with low or inappropriately normal LH and FSH, with remainder of pituitary function normal - as you describe), but it is quite rare, and usually accompanied with other physical exam findings. Pretty much always associated with infertility, and your doctor was wise to do the sperm analysis showing your overall gonadal function is intact, and your other pituitary function is normal as reported. Good, for you to be less worried. Bad, because removes easy and obvious answer to your problem.

Be careful about using exogenous androgens. Don't believe the scare-mongers, but don't belittle the milder adverse effects and potential for rendering young men such as yourself infertile or causing chronic iatrogenic secondary hypogonadism in the long run. Excessive dosing is common and can be dangerous.

Keep an open mind. Low Total T with mild secondary hypogonadism is a common finding in multiple conditions in response to chronic illness, and if you have something else that is not found because you and your doctors respond incorrectly to this "canary in the coalmine", then you are possibly much worse off. Could also be early marker of eventual endocrine disease, need an open mind.

Oh yeah, and a bunch of endo's stil think doping doesn't work. It does, and you will feel different, possibly better, on exogenous androgens. There is a reason an mini-industry of "doctors" make a living prescribing it to men without endocrine disorders, but that reason isn't endocrinological.

Glad to hear from a real endo. Thank you for the help.

So what exactly do you suggest I do? Is my doctors plan for ~4 months of androgel and then weaning me off of it a reasonable way to go about things? What else can I do or test for? I've gotten all sorts of blood work done and everything seems normal other than what I mentioned. I feel like I've tried raising it naturally to no avail. And my symptoms have been in line with low testosterone for as long as I can remember, but I just chalked up my brain fog, lack of sex drive, and overall depressive-like feelings to just "how I'm wired". I'm sure my years of heavy endurance training made it worse, but it's not as if I had no symptoms even before that. No other symptoms that would make me think something else is going on.

Again really appreciate your input.

LowTYoungGuy wrote:Is my doctors plan for ~4 months of androgel and then weaning me off of it a reasonable way to go about things?

It seems to me, this is a short term solution as your body will give up producing entirely when supplementing with exogenous T.

LowTYoungGuy wrote:I but I just chalked up my brain fog, lack of sex drive, and overall depressive-like feelings to just "how I'm wired".

This is a Red flag for brain chemistry that just doesn't work right.

Do you have issues with paying attention? Do people complain you are compulsive? Crabby? Pessimistic?

Get a psychologist to assess/refer you. Probably need a developmental specialist as they deal more with the things you mention. Also a T.O.V.A. exam might be informative.

pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:

LowTYoungGuy wrote:Is my doctors plan for ~4 months of androgel and then weaning me off of it a reasonable way to go about things?

It seems to me, this is a short term solution as your body will give up producing entirely when supplementing with exogenous T.

LowTYoungGuy wrote:I but I just chalked up my brain fog, lack of sex drive, and overall depressive-like feelings to just "how I'm wired".

This is a Red flag for brain chemistry that just doesn't work right.

Do you have issues with paying attention? Do people complain you are compulsive? Crabby? Pessimistic?

Get a psychologist to assess/refer you. Probably need a developmental specialist as they deal more with the things you mention. Also a T.O.V.A. exam might be informative.

Do have issues paying attention. But I'm extremely even-keeled. People think I'm easy going and generally level attitude.

LowTYoungGuy wrote:

Do have issues paying attention. But I'm extremely even-keeled. People think I'm easy going and generally level attitude.

Well, but you just posted that you have always felt generally depressive. Which, would explain what's quoted above. Constant "Brain fog" also a red flag.

I would definitely get an developmental psychologist evaluation. I'm not saying this will cure the low T issue, or that you are crazy. That's not what a developmental psych assessment does. But, it should help narrow the issue.

What's your diet like? Do you eat a varied diet of everything? (Meat, cheese, fruits, veg, grains)

[quote]LowTYoungGuy wrote:

[quote]endocrinologist wrote:

Yes, an actual endo.

First of all you have no real way of knowing if this or anybody else is for real. I have Multiple PhDs and medical degrees an d masters.

Not really.

Quit trying to find advice here, read up educate your self ( hint this is NOT the place) and LISTEN to the medical advice given to you by TRAINED medical professionals. who actually have seen you..

I know this is not what you want to read

but be smarter than this.

good luck

pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:

LowTYoungGuy wrote:

Do have issues paying attention. But I'm extremely even-keeled. People think I'm easy going and generally level attitude.

Well, but you just posted that you have always felt generally depressive. Which, would explain what's quoted above. Constant "Brain fog" also a red flag.

I would definitely get an developmental psychologist evaluation. I'm not saying this will cure the low T issue, or that you are crazy. That's not what a developmental psych assessment does. But, it should help narrow the issue.

What's your diet like? Do you eat a varied diet of everything? (Meat, cheese, fruits, veg, grains)

I'm open to that. I'm not sure that it will have really any effect on T, but I'm open to trying anything.

Diet is pretty perfect (IMO). Basically vegan except sardines/oysters every other day or so in order to get b12, omega 3's etc. Basically whole grains, veggies, beans, and flax/nuts/avocado. Tried high fat/protein diet with red meat all the time during the first 2 months of this fiasco, and didn't effect T and made me feel kinda shitty.

perspective wrote:

[quote]LowTYoungGuy wrote:

[quote]endocrinologist wrote:

Yes, an actual endo.

First of all you have no real way of knowing if this or anybody else is for real. I have Multiple PhDs and medical degrees an d masters.

Not really.

Quit trying to find advice here, read up educate your self ( hint this is NOT the place) and LISTEN to the medical advice given to you by TRAINED medical professionals. who actually have seen you..

I know this is not what you want to read

but be smarter than this.

good luck

Thanks for the advice. I understand this and just wanted to hear some different feedback. Endo says my best course of action is taking the stuff, my own research seems to show it doesn't have too many drawbacks, so just wanted a well rounded pool of opinions. I hold my endo's opinion the highest, just wanted to get some other opinions too.

Nothing wrong with respecting your Endo, but theres a better than average chance that he is not up to snuff on TRT. Ask your endo what his trt protocol would look like for you. Then maybe do some reading on excelmale or some of the other sites full of members on trt to see if his protocol lines up with what has been successful for others.

Really though at 21 you should at the very least try a restart with clomid or something in the hopes that you could kickstart your own production. Then you can save trt for when your older if/when needed.

Is my doctors plan for ~4 months of androgel and then weaning me off of it a reasonable way to go about things?

Your Doctors plan is absolutely terrible. There are drugs like clomid that will make your body produce more testosterone. You can take them for a period of time which will boost your own natural production and then some people are able to come off it and their body will continue to produce a healthier amount of testosterone. There are full restart protocols online that you can search for.

Androgel on the other hand will shut down your own production of tetosterone. Then when you stop you might go back to the pre androgel production but your'e going to feel terrible waiting for that to happen and your'e probably not going to produce more unless something else has changed. In addition to that androgel provides a really small dose of testosterone so you would be shutting down your own natural production while not getting many of the benefits of testosteron.

Cggordon2730 wrote:

Do not do it. I repeat.... Do not do it. I went down that road. T was on the floor from training too much on too little food. I took the gel like a jackass. Decided to get off of it and 3 years off of it My t is at 800-1000 regularly. Angrogel or whatever is not worth the cardiac risk at your age.

Take a look at your diet. Stop running. Start lifting 3xper week. When your levels come up... Resume training but keep it moderate. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with you. Low t is a normal adaptation to too much out put on too little input. Be patient. It will come back.

Should you have any questions I can talk privately via email

LOL, there is no real cardiac risk. Especially there is no cardiac risk for young people. Control your cholesterol and blood pressure.

Clomid will mess with the estrogen receptors all over your body.(it has side effects) I don't think the effect will last after you stop taking it. It is also a very mild effect.

I don't think Androgel will completely shut down your production.(depends on the dose and time of use) Especially if you do not have much production in the first place

.

Clomid is something I wouldn't go near myself, but it has been used in the bodybuilding community and there are some Dr's like Dr Crisler who is pretty well known in the trt community who have used it to restart someones own production who has done damage to it from heavy use of steroids and what not. Of course this guy is 21 and he's at 200 so possibly he has never produced much testosterone so there simply might not be anything to restart.

If someone doesn't get shut down from Androgel it would be because they are not absorbing enough to make a difference. Androgel is probably more harmful that it is good. If someone wanted to use a gel they would be best off getting a much stronger gel from a compounding pharmacy.

Follow the advice of your doctor not that of people who are not in the know

LowTYoungGuy wrote:

Basically vegan except sardines/oysters every other day or so in order to get b12, omega 3's etc.

Uh huh... Vegan is not normal or varied. The foggy brain is the classic negative response. Have a little fish, have a little cheese, have a little ground beef, a little turkey, with your veggies and some starch. It's called moderation. Look it up.

I'm guessing there was some chaos/difficult situation growing up as well that's made you so "even-keeled" yet consistently depressed.

I'm an old guy that's been around endurance sports for decades. You fit the average damaged persona that uses endurance sports to manage their neuroses. It's better than wasting away smoking pot. You got that going for you.

Start by resuming a normal diet. As in, moderation and enjoyment, and satisfaction and ease and pleasure in eating all kinds of things both alone and with others.

Typical next response is to introduce a new privation like "gluten free" or ketone diet, or some other bizarro thing that feeds the neurosis.

You'll probably need psychological help to be able to learn to do things with moderation. Definitely seek out a psychologist to start working through your issues. Hopefully you find one that refers out frequently for testing. You'll need it.

My work here is done! Mystery solved! You're welcome.

pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:

LowTYoungGuy wrote:

Basically vegan except sardines/oysters every other day or so in order to get b12, omega 3's etc.

Uh huh... Vegan is not normal or varied. The foggy brain is the classic negative response. Have a little fish, have a little cheese, have a little ground beef, a little turkey, with your veggies and some starch. It's called moderation. Look it up.

......

You'll probably need psychological help to be able to learn to do things with moderation. Definitely seek out a psychologist to start working through your issues. Hopefully you find one that refers out frequently for testing. You'll need it.

My work here is done! Mystery solved! You're welcome.

1) he said that he eats fish every other day

2) he's running 10 mpw. That sounds like moderation to me.

Sdfssfsdfsdfsdf wrote:

pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:

Uh huh... Vegan is not normal or varied. The foggy brain is the classic negative response. Have a little fish, have a little cheese, have a little ground beef, a little turkey, with your veggies and some starch. It's called moderation. Look it up.

......

You'll probably need psychological help to be able to learn to do things with moderation. Definitely seek out a psychologist to start working through your issues. Hopefully you find one that refers out frequently for testing. You'll need it.

My work here is done! Mystery solved! You're welcome.

1) he said that he eats fish every other day

2) he's running 10 mpw. That sounds like moderation to me.

Exactly. Thank you.

Sdfssfsdfsdfsdf wrote:

1) he said that he eats fish every other day

2) he's running 10 mpw. That sounds like moderation to me.

Bzzzzt! Wrong.

Basically vegan except sardines/oysters every other day

Not a varied diet. All the rules and restrictions about eating strongly hint at other issues culminating in low T.

I'm old and have been around endurance sports so long OP's scenario isn't new.

even the vast majority of AAS abusers end up with natural testosterone production and infertility. the risk of long term infertility from TRT level doses is minimal.

should "doctors" not prescribe safe treatments that dramatically improve quality of life?