3 girls run 16:50s at Benzie Invitational in Michigan

Michigan girls rock wrote:

16:50s is in line with their 3200 PRs from last spring so maybe not such a big surprise on a course that is track fast. I doubt if the course is 30 seconds short, they are just that good.

No such thing as "track fast" XC courses. Unless you have a long gradual net downhill you'll never run track times in XC.

Go to Benzie central pete moss page, he did a true count of the distance and it was actually a little over a 5k by 100 feet. So no it is not a short course.

Russell Alton wrote:

Go to Benzie central pete moss page, he did a true count of the distance and it was actually a little over a 5k by 100 feet. So no it is not a short course.

Right the race director is going to wheel it accurately every time, I've been there and wheeled it only a little short and also wheeled it well short. I was never able to run it such that I got it over. As mentioned earlier another Coach who I trust wheeled it at 4915 the way he would run it, not following exactly the best tangents. It's not that short, certainly close enough to call good and that's not only reason it's fast. It's a beautiful well put together course, that has good footing, long straights, etc...

If it's within a few feet (a stride or two), it's accurate.

Those girls are the real deal and those who think they know the course and want to claim it's short are just envious of what just happened. Go ahead, measure it. It course ran fast as it wasn't all wet and they had decent/great weather for August, combined with three extremely competitive girls who ran like pitbulls and would not let go.

Once it's measured, you'll see;). Well short? Were you drunk?

Nope, I have no child, boy or girl who have ever ran on that course, believe it or not. In addition, I'm not a current coach, as many pretend to be on these boards. TrackCoach is wrong, College Coaches most certainly do look at cross country times.

TruthSquadCommander wrote:

In short, our Michigan Distance Chicks are bad as hell

Indoor? wrote:

I've been there and wheeled it only a little short and also wheeled it well short. another Coach who I trust wheeled it at 4915 the way he would run it, not following exactly the best tangents. It's not that short, certainly close enough to call good

You admit yourself that you wheeled the course well short, so the course is no longer than that and is probably less. Well short is not good as to accuracy.

so you trust the coach measuring 4915, why should we?

Indoor? wrote:

Russell Alton wrote:

Go to Benzie central pete moss page, he did a true count of the distance and it was actually a little over a 5k by 100 feet. So no it is not a short course.

Right the race director is going to wheel it accurately every time, I've been there and wheeled it only a little short and also wheeled it well short. I was never able to run it such that I got it over. As mentioned earlier another Coach who I trust wheeled it at 4915 the way he would run it, not following exactly the best tangents. It's not that short, certainly close enough to call good and that's not only reason it's fast. It's a beautiful well put together course, that has good footing, long straights, etc...

opopiitt wrote:

If it's within a few feet (a stride or two), it's accurate.

Those girls are the real deal and those who think they know the course and want to claim it's short are just envious of what just happened. Go ahead, measure it. It course ran fast as it wasn't all wet and they had decent/great weather for August, combined with three extremely competitive girls who ran like pitbulls and would not let go.

Once it's measured, you'll see;). Well short? Were you drunk?

Nope, I have no child, boy or girl who have ever ran on that course, believe it or not. In addition, I'm not a current coach, as many pretend to be on these boards. TrackCoach is wrong, College Coaches most certainly do look at cross country times.

Of course college coaches look at XC times, but I don't they don't give out XC scholarships. You can win the Michigan state XC championship, your scholarship opportunities will be less than the girl who won 800 or mile state championship. I am not guessing about this, it is a fact.

no we did not attend this meet, but have run regionals there in the past. If i had to guess, I'd say this is the most accurately measured and re-measured course in Michigan! 125 feet over 5k at last measure according to race director! Asa knows what he's doing.

other side of the dollar bill wrote:

so you trust the coach measuring 4915, why should we?

Indoor? wrote:

Right the race director is going to wheel it accurately every time, I've been there and wheeled it only a little short and also wheeled it well short. I was never able to run it such that I got it over. As mentioned earlier another Coach who I trust wheeled it at 4915 the way he would run it, not following exactly the best tangents. It's not that short, certainly close enough to call good and that's not only reason it's fast. It's a beautiful well put together course, that has good footing, long straights, etc...

Believe what you want. There are a lot of courses in Michigan that wheel more than 85 meters short, just doesn't get noticed as much cause they aren't super fast on top of that. The NFHS rules are to be measured by shortest possible route and to not be over 5000 meters. So I'm guessing you have a lot across the country that range from 4800-5000. Its XC so everyone is running on the same course and times really don't matter.

To those arguing about xc times and college coaches the truth is somewhere in the middle. Coaches certainly look at and consider xc times but they do focus on track times as well. I'm sure each coach is a little different about how much they put on xc times. I bet they all like xc winners the best.

That course is never right, great meet fun course but anyone in area knows it is a short course....this is why time records in XC are worthless.

Take a que from Europe make the course and don't bother with actual distances, XC is about racing not times!

3 girls broke 17:00 on a 3.02 mile course. Absolutely amazing. Who are these girls and where are they from? Are they any good at the track races?

H. Harvey wrote:

Michigan girls rock wrote:

16:50s is in line with their 3200 PRs from last spring so maybe not such a big surprise on a course that is track fast. I doubt if the course is 30 seconds short, they are just that good.

No such thing as "track fast" XC courses. Unless you have a long gradual net downhill you'll never run track times in XC.

See this thread.

Wow Super Impressed Johnny wrote:

3 girls broke 17:00 on a 3.02 mile course. Absolutely amazing. Who are these girls and where are they from? Are they any good at the track races?

Very. The winner was the D1 1600 champ in mid 4:40s, 2nd place won D3 3200 as a freshman and ran 4:55 and 10:35 as a sophomore and the 3rd place girl is 2:14/4:55/10:3x

We don't care if you're impressed or not as no one is looking for your approval. Measure it point to point, shortest route. It's not short, but nice try Mr. Nobody. People who aren't from Michigan have zero clue who those 3 girls are and the near perfect August weather that they were blessed with. Look at the girls behind them and what they ran last year for pr's and what their times were yesterday, you'll be in for a shocker. Those 3 girls simply kicked butt and are in phenomenally great shape this early in the season. So yes, they are that good.

Wow Super Impressed Johnny wrote:

3 girls broke 17:00 on a 3.02 mile course. Absolutely amazing. Who are these girls and where are they from? Are they any good at the track races?

Better than Johnny wrote:

We don't care if you're impressed or not as no one is looking for your approval. Measure it point to point, shortest route. It's not short, but nice try Mr. Nobody.

People who aren't from Michigan have zero clue who those 3 girls are and the near perfect August weather that they were blessed with. Look at the girls behind them and what they ran last year for pr's and what their times were yesterday, you'll be in for a shocker. Those 3 girls simply kicked butt and are in phenomenally great shape this early in the season. So yes, they are that good.

Wow Super Impressed Johnny wrote:

3 girls broke 17:00 on a 3.02 mile course. Absolutely amazing. Who are these girls and where are they from? Are they any good at the track races?

My approval kinda means a lot. Anyway, what do you suppose Tully will score those sub-17s as? 151? That would be exceptional this time of year.

Benzie is historically fast. So fast, that most people run their season bests there. Does that mean it's short? Probably, and I've heard as much from coaches who measure the course. In any event, it's XC so who really gives a hoot about the times? The real story here is that Anna Jensen wasn't within a minute of the leaders and she was all but announced queen of Michigan as an 8th grader.

To be fair Jensen ran well, around 13 seconds faster than last year. Had a pretty good track season 2:14, 4:51 and 10:50 and only ran 3200 hard once.

Yes, look at the "Better than Johnny" post. He already said that about the other runners and I've looked at the times on Athletic.net---he's right. Those top 3 girls did run that fast.

Jensen wrote:

To be fair Jensen ran well, around 13 seconds faster than last year. Had a pretty good track season 2:14, 4:51 and 10:50 and only ran 3200 hard once.