Should High School Cross Country Coaches Run with the Team?

Glad this thread hasn't gone off the rails. The consensus seems to be that it's OK some of the time, and in my opinion that's what it should be.

The threat of being "one of the guys" is something that can't be stressed too much. If you are a coach and feel things sliding in that direction you need to pull back. Let those guys have their time.

zohan wrote:

Glad this thread hasn't gone off the rails. The consensus seems to be that it's OK some of the time, and in my opinion that's what it should be.

The threat of being "one of the guys" is something that can't be stressed too much. If you are a coach and feel things sliding in that direction you need to pull back. Let those guys have their time.

Those saying it is ok are coaches who want it to be ok. It isn't. Baseball and basketball coaches don't go out there and take batting practice or play in a scrimmage. Coaches who think it is ok to run with their teams aren't likely to feel things sliding in a bad direction. It's all a bad direction. Coaches coach. Athletes train. Any coach who thinks they are coaching while running with the team has some serious micromanaging issues (at best) and, if not that, some maturity issues.

If there are issues with some runners not running the route or some shenanigans going on, then either hop on a bike or make them run within eyesight for a while until they get that they can't do what they've been doing. Running with them is wrong though. Not a good way to spark interest from others who have yet to join the team. "Guess what, Coach Wilson runs with us! Isn't that great!" -- Umm...no.

Either your coach is closer to 40 in age or you probably have a lousy team!(Many teens think 40 is old!)

alsharir wrote:

our coach always did and would whoop our asses in some workouts. He is also around 60 years old. The team can't bond when the coach is always doing recovery runs and long runs with the athletes. No dirty talk.

lousy team.

We have three coaches. One is as fast as our fastest guys (he ran in college and is only recently out), one is and older recreational runner who runs with our slowest groups, and I am right in the middle, both in age and speed. We all run with the team on nearly every run, except for time trials and maybe a few other very specific runs. I want our runners to be competitive (which they are...very), but I also want to instill in them the idea that running is a lifelong endeavor. It isn't about "hanging out with the team" or trying to be cool; it is about practicing what you preach and doing it in plain sight. It makes your coaching more genuine when the athletes really know that you have suffered with them.

The people who are complaining about coaches running with the team are probably the same ones who complain that fat, sedentary people shouldn't coach running because it sets a bad example. You can't have it both ways. There are only so many hours in the day; I assure you I won't be dropping my children off at child watch at the YMCA so I can get a run in because I felt guilty about running with actual runners during practice.

FWIW, we have multiple ability groups. Each has a GPS watch with fast and slow pace alerts, and we can check their workouts when they finish. So, in a sense, they have constant coaching throughout their run, anyway.

I know of a program that has about five state championship teams. Both the head and assistant have been running with the team for about 20 years or more.

It's amazing how opinions differ.

Me, myself, and I tried to run with the team and always felt guilty when I could not. When I rode a bike community members said I should run with them. I quit that honorable thing and started using my car. That worked out best for me.

(One of the problems with me running with the team is I had to run all out to beat my team. I would get injured trying to get them to develop a little intensity.

So I think you might have something there. Leading by example in this case does not always work. But if you are the best runner by far on the team like the afore mentioned 5 X state champs. You can run with the team and it's okay.)

Each has a GPS watch? What are you Suburban Malibu? Who can afford those wrist computers?

Each GROUP. And we had several fundraisers (which we worked without additional compensation) to be able to afford them.

Yeah I'm not so black and white on the issue. It's not a never situation but I think running with them every day is far too much, especially on big workout days.

no no no it is not ok!! maybe if they are switching around or helping out beginners but my coach runs with varsity daily ughh so annoying!!! and it was mainly with the girls varsity because he couldn't keep up with varsboys i remember him saying so ladies whats the hottest gossip and cutting in between me and my running buddy! it becomes like the annoying hanger-on kid- none of the kids you are coaching will like or respect you. he would also say at team dinners that running with us is why he did it not because of the the money because it doesn't pay well or something idk!! my point is you are not in high school, we are not friends, and i need a coach not another teammate

I won't go on and on about this, but your example of having to run too hard with the team which lead to injury is just one of the many reasons this should not be done. The coaches on my son's HS team are all runners, but they run on their own time...as they should.

Here are the reasons a coach shouldn't run with the team:

1) Fun killer. Sorry, but part of the greatness of being on a high school sports team is having fun with other high school kids and talking with each other the way high school kids do. They don't need an older person (and anyone out of high school is an "older person") constantly around to muck that fun up.

2) Motivation KILLER. Either the coach has to work too hard to stay with a certain group of athletes which, as you said, led to injury (bad example to set for the kids) or the coach is a former D1 all-american who can dust them all (can be seen as a show off and makes the kids wonder how they could ever get as good).

3) Too much closeness. HS runners want to fart out loud and swear and say inappropriate joking things to each other. Kind of goes with the fun killer, but it's more than that. There needs to be a separation between coach and athlete. Math teachers don't sit down and take a math test along with the students (and they don't do daily worksheets with them either in case someone wanted to say coaches don't run races). Coaches should coach and athletes should train. Dangerous to blur the lines, which can often lead to inappropriate relationships...I have seen that happen more than once...and both by coaches who trained with their athletes. Yes, there are many coaches where this wouldn't come into play ever, but still, too much familiarity.

4) Coaches aren't paid to get their run in. Sorry if there are only so many hours in a day...a coach signed up to coach, not to get paid to stay fit.

Flagpole wrote:

john utah wrote:

What exactly is a coach supposed to do if an entire team is out on a trail run. Sit there and wait for them to come back? That's ridiculous.

Yes...sit there and wait for them to come back, or run around in circles while you wait (so you can see if someone needed to come back early). I knew someone would defend this behavior, but it just isn't right. High school coaches should not be running with their athletes. Bad form.

I totally disagree with you. There is nothing wrong with it. Furthermore, high school coaches aren't getting paid s#it so I would see this as a bit of a perk, getting to run occasionally before 5:30 pm when others are in the office.

i definitely think it is good for coaches to be able to run with their team, I do almost all of the time during xc.

It is purposeful for supervision purposes since we have to run on a public trail that largely consists of out and back runs so I run with the top group going the furthest and can pick up stragglers on the way back and make sure everyone makes it in.

Also it helps keep the pace honest and the kids running the way they should, if it is a recovery run it helps keep them from running too hard or too fast and on workouts I can set the pace.

It is easy to give the kids plenty of time to be kids and interact without a coach when they are stretching, in the locker room, outside of practice etc. but I have found that if you have the right personality the kids want to be around you. I have had kids want to try to keep up on an easy run to hear stories from when I ran in high school or college and if you are smart about what you are saying its a great time to impart knowledge about training or racing tactics without them feeling like you are lecturing them.

The key is making sure everything is about their training. Even when I was still seriously "competing" I always prioritized their workout and training and would worry about what I needed to do on my own time.

john utah wrote:

Flagpole wrote:

Yes...sit there and wait for them to come back, or run around in circles while you wait (so you can see if someone needed to come back early). I knew someone would defend this behavior, but it just isn't right. High school coaches should not be running with their athletes. Bad form.

I totally disagree with you. There is nothing wrong with it. Furthermore, high school coaches aren't getting paid s#it so I would see this as a bit of a perk, getting to run occasionally before 5:30 pm when others are in the office.

Guess we will have to disagree the, brother. Being a coach isn't about getting perks...it's about doing what's right for the athletes and the program, and an adult running with the kids isn't right...on any level. Only rationalization makes it so.

A lot of good thoughts on this thread. I think the answer is definitely, "it depends," but I also think it's worth keeping mind that nobody ever thinks they're being "that guy," even if sometimes they are.

For what it's worth, when I was coaching, I ran with my kids some of the time. I had a few different reasons:

- Sometimes I was showing the kids new routes or trails, and I wanted to make sure they didn't get lost. I typically would be bouncing back and forth between groups on these runs, so I wasn't with any group for a long period of time.

- My program had almost died before I took over, so we didn't have any experienced upperclassmen to guide the new runners or to share running lore. If we had, I probably would've run with them less.

- I occasionally used easy runs to do the coaching that would otherwise have taken place at a meeting. For instance, I would run a few minutes with each of my varsity runners to talk about the next race. I wanted to make practice short so they could get home, get dinner, and do their homework. It also became a selling point in trying to recruit new runners that XC practice usually only takes an hour. I've always thought it was a bit nuts that lots of high school XC coaches want to keep their kids for a full 2 hours, when half that time is just stretching and talking.

- When it came to interval workouts, I was usually just using the clipboard and stopwatch, and I would only very rarely run with the kids. Usually it was because I had particular runners who just could not run an even pace, so I might do a few reps until they got into the groove. On only one occasion did I do my own workout at the same time--I did a tempo on the track with some of my milers doing every other lap with me. The correct paces were perfectly aligned, and it just seemed a neat opportunity that we could share that experience and have it be appropriately difficult for all of us. I had runners tell me years later that it was one of their favorite workouts.

On balance, they were still running far more without me than with me, and I did almost all of my own workouts solo, after the kids went home.

800 dude wrote:

... but I also think it's worth keeping mind that nobody ever thinks they're being "that guy," even if sometimes they are.

This^ is the truth and the crux of the whole discussion. People want what they want, and so they tell themselves that it is ok. I will give one exception to the not running with the athletes rule...if there is a special needs kid who really must have adult supervision and the parents and the school either can't afford or won't pay for someone to run with them, if the coach is able and all parties agree, then I'm ok with that. Pretty much, other than that situation, coaches need to not run with their athletes.

Wrong. You think tennis coaches aren't out on the court with their players with racquets in hand? What about coaches throwing batting practice in baseball? Hello? Your blanket statements are flawed.

If an xc team is doing a basic 5-10 mile trail run then there is absolutely zero reason why a coach can't run the same run. I'm not saying the coach has to be right next to the guys running in the exact same pack (if he could even keep up), but the idea that he's "coaching" by standing at the trailhead waiting for everyone to come back is absurd. Not sure how anyone could see it any other way. I do some weekend runs with the XC team as a parent and the coaches are always out on the trails. One coach is usually just doing his thing, getting his run in. The other is usually running alongside the kids and trying to push the kids that are half a$$ing it or encouraging/pacing others that are struggling. If you think it's preferable for the coach to remain at the trailhead you know nothing about the sport.

That said, there are obviously many instances where the coach should not be running, such as intervals on the track.

To your #1 in particular. Coaches in football, basketball, and baseball are always around. Kids need to be supervised. As a matter of fact in my case I was hired because the boys team I was coaching, under the previous coach, had went to girlfriend's houses and had cookies and who knows what else.

I also think that it is imperative to run once in awhile with the team if you can to set a good example. But it's crucial that the coach be with the team as much as possible. I'm 100% sure athletic directors would agree with me on that one!

You must supervise your team whether it's by car, bike, or on foot that is job one.

alsharir wrote:

our coach always did and would whoop our asses in some workouts. He is also around 60 years old. The team can't bond when the coach is always doing recovery runs and long runs with the athletes. No dirty talk.

That is another reason why coaches must supervise their teams. Why do you think dirty talk is okay?