Trained for four years and my best mile is only 6:05 :(

Just Another Hobby Jogger wrote:

2007 wrote:

My ultimate goals are sub 5:30 mile, sub 19 5k, sub 40 10k, sub 1:40 half and sub 3:35 marathon.

Your half and marathon goals are far less ambitious than your mile/5k/10k goals. Any reason for this? Are you a fast twitch type?

I don't really give a stuff about my 10k+ times, I'd prefer to train for middle or shorter distance. Eventually, I'd like to train short distance/sprinting 100-400m but right now i want to focus on middle distance, I get a lot of satisfaction out of it and I also find it the most challenging.

DaneRauschenburg wrote:

2007 wrote:

Should I just give up?

Well, the good news is that whatever you were doing wasn't really training. The bad news is that you may be able to place in a local "Color Run".

Thanks for that.

Care to offer me some advice on some real training?

2007 wrote:

Just Another Hobby Jogger wrote:

Your half and marathon goals are far less ambitious than your mile/5k/10k goals. Any reason for this? Are you a fast twitch type?

I don't really give a stuff about my 10k+ times, I'd prefer to train for middle or shorter distance. Eventually, I'd like to train short distance/sprinting 100-400m but right now i want to focus on middle distance, I get a lot of satisfaction out of it and I also find it the most challenging.

Then embrace your challenge and keep working.

Then it is time for you to juice

You probably already know some of this, but it's worth mentioning. You cannot train for the mile while also training for the half marathon or marathon. If you want to excel at a distance you need to train specifically for that distance. Sure, you can jump up or down to a different distance, but don't expect to be great. Focus on your 1500m race distance and gear your training around it.

Next, 2007, based on your posts, I'm assuming you didn't run track in HS or college and that you've been running for 4 years. Is that correct?

If that's true and you haven't raced the 800 or 1500 in HS or college, you should know that these races require a different mindset. The warm up is different. The pain is different. As an adult runner who has done mostly longer road races, you have to adapt your mind and body to these shorter races.

You have to learn to go out fast and have the mental discipline to not go too fast and not slow down too much. You have to learn how to relax without slowing down. You have to learn how to dig down to run faster over the last 200m when your body is screaming to slow down.

Most of all, you have to learn how to deal with the pain. It's not the same pain as a marathon or even a 5k. It comes on so fast that your mind starts screaming at you to slow down. It's hard to explain, but 800/1500m runners know that you don't exactly manage the pain; that's not really an accurate description... and you definitely don't conquer it. You sort of... embrace it. The only way you get better is to race the distance. For this reason, my first 800m of the season is seldom close to my best. It's partially because my mind hasn't been tempered by the fire of the pain of recent races. My mind thinks I can't handle the pace and it forces me to slow down. After three races, my mind shuts off these signals and I run faster. I know that sounds... I don't know... zen like or whatever... but it's how I feel.

Since you haven't been successful with your existing training for the 1500m, I'd suggest that you drop down to the 800m and train for/race that distance a few times over the next several months. Many middle distance runners think the 800m is harder than the 1500m. It is undeniably faster paced, so it will be good training to develop the ability to hold on in a slightly slower paced 1500m.

When you have the speed endurance and mental discipline to run a good 800m, then you can move up to the 1500m.

J.S is right - you haven't tried everything. You need to switch to a periodized approach. It'll make you feel young again like a HS of collegiate runner, and you'll improve loads. It helps with burnout. Being 29, you can improve in the mile for another 5 years or so, and at longer distances you won't decline until you're 40 (unless you've been running super high mileage since high school).

Structure your year like an elite runner, so start your cycle in November and end in September. Take all of October off with a bit of x-training to stay somewhat fit.

From November to January, do some easy mileage, working your way up to 50mpw, which is what seems comfortable for you. This should all be easy running, around 9:00 pace for you.

From February to April, incorporate faster running into your training regimen. Each week, you'd have 3 "hard" runs. One is a 50min run, done at 8:00 pace. This is an Aerobic Threshold run. Another is a 25min run, done at 7:20 pace. This is an Anaerobic Threshold run. The third is a 70min run. This "long run" should be done at 8:20 pace one week, and easy the other week. Running long runs at a fast pace should help your lacking endurance. It benefits any runner 800m and up. All three of these runs should be on a relatively flat course, because they are essentially tempos. Occasionally, run 8x400m in 92-95, with 2min rest. This is to get the legs moving. Your easy runs should be easy, but try to do them on very hilly courses.

In May and June, add more fast running. Your running will be harder, so only 2 "hard" runs per week. One is a short tempo run of 15-25min, done at 82-85% RP (race pace). The other hard run is an interval workout, with each week alternating long and short intervals. One week you do 4x1000m at 87% RP, with 2min recovery. The other week you do 12x200m at 110% RP, with 2-3min rest. All of this gives you good endurance and good speed, but has not combined them yet. You now have the ingredients to run fast, and next you have to start cooking.

From July to September is your racing season. You can do races all through the year, but now is when you should chase the fast times. Your workouts are very hard, so no more than 2 per week. A race counts as a workout. You can do any combination of workouts, but the pace should be 98% RP to 105% RP. You are preparing your body to at mile pace, so you should run very close to that or faster. Some samples would be:

- 2x5x300m at 105% RP, 1.5min between reps, 5min between sets

- 5x600m at RP, 4min rest

- 3x1000m at RP, 8min rest (very tough!)

In this phase, you want to force your body to adapt to run fast for a long time, so you do not want to do the same workout over and over again. You want to evolve the workout. For example, to evolve the workout of 8x400m at RP with 2min rest, you could run 9x400m at RP or 7x500m at RP. Do not change the pace or the rest. Each workout has a purpose, and the pace and rest are set for that purpose, and the extension is what creates the adaptation.

You have been running for many years, and you have built up a large and untapped aerobic base. You are ready for this type of training. Remember, a good coach will tailor the training for the individual athlete and her needs. You should not take this training exactly, but instead understand the concept of it and adapt it to your needs. I got everything I wrote here from this pdf:

http://tinyurl.com/4x6obmj

, and I changed it a little to fit myself.

Good luck, and most of all have fun with this! I believe it was HRE who wrote earlier along the lines of "Most of us will run our best races when we stop trying too hard. Stop straining to reach the times, let the times come to you." Take that as your theme for your future running.

Your 5k is poor based on 6:05. Woman I run with occasionally does about 22:30 but no way no how could she run 6:05. She ran 6:4x in a recent mile race on a track.

And 14:x is pretty fast. I'd venture you have some physiologic limiter re: endurance. In short, you're a sprinter.

Just enjoy what your doing.

Any reason why you consistently ignore the advice to work with a coach? I am sure it is flattering that all these armchair coaches are willing to throw up their comprehensive training programs for you on this thread, but you clearly need an actual coach (preferably live and definitely not that j.s. creepo) to progress.

Now I remember why I hated the 800/mile. Great advice.

Igloi's Daemon wrote:

Get Bob Schul's Training Book. America's only 5K Olympic champion. Two days a week start doing many 100m/150m intervals. Over the course of the next year build up to 50-60 number of reps. Walk 50m between reps. Vary the paces of these. Don't run hills other than 1-3% if in course of a 45-60 minute run. Don't run over 60 minutes at a time. Don't do any lifting, cross fit or 'core' exercises. Just run. Everything else will take care of it self. About 5-6 times a month do 12-15 x 600m. Slightly SLOWER than race pace but still faster than of course if you were on an endurance 60 minute run. That is use a dynamic stride and footplant. Recovery between each about a minute.

Bottom line is you are stagnant and need to shake things up.

+1

Also +1 for fisky's advice.

2007, you said "My ultimate goals are sub 5:30 mile, sub 19 5k, sub 40 10k, sub 1:40 half and sub 3:35 marathon."

My advice would be to forget for now the 5k and over goals and keep the sub 5:30 goal. Have your mind focussed on improving in 800m and 1500m races. Fix your stride to become that of a middle distance runner by not doing much slow running at all apart from warming up and warming down from sessions. Start running interval sessions 4 days a week but relaxed, easy and short intervals with long recoveries as walks (suggested by ID above). Build up to sessions like 20 x 100m, 15 x 150m, 10 x 200m but keep the speed relatively easy. Perhaps start at 7 minute mile pace (26 seconds per 100) and work down from that. Don't sprint these! Run with light middle distance form. Train your movement to be that of a middle distance runner. Do middle distance drills as part of your warm up. Race weekly at distances from 100m up to 3k. Keep your long run down to 60 to 75 minutes and easy enough so that the next day you can do an interval session. Stay happy and enjoy your running!

You need a coach so you will get your goals.

increase to 70 mpw now and work on getting up over 100 if you want to get close to 5

As some who coaches for a living I would ask...do you really need to be able to run a fast mile?...you may be better suited for longer races.

2007 wrote:

Should I just give up?

Why would you give up?

You have an amazing opportunity to improve.

vcxdf wrote:

And 14:x is pretty fast. I'd venture you have some physiologic limiter re: endurance. In short, you're a sprinter.

+1

If the 14.XX is legit, that screams "sprinter". In the world of endurance running, a ton of women can break 6 in the mile; very few can break 15 in the 100mt, and these usually would break 5 in the mile. Long distances may not be your thing, but you may be pretty good up to the 800m.

Unfortunately, training for sprints is almost a different sport. If you want to explore that option, then I would get a coach. If you enjoy what you are doing, just keep doing it and don't bother about your times. 6 for the mile is already fairly solid.

Alactic wrote:

Any reason why you consistently ignore the advice to work with a coach? I am sure it is flattering that all these armchair coaches are willing to throw up their comprehensive training programs for you on this thread, but you clearly need an actual coach (preferably live and definitely not that j.s. creepo) to progress.

Hehehe! "...not that j.s creepo. " :) .... You are pointing at a coach that during 2 years have coached about 80-90 runners ,and all of them have improved. Two international marathon winners. Now lately a kenyan to win a 11.5 km road race in 31.43 min !!!Give me any runner and I make him/her to improve.

The only Wizard

COACH J.S å ä ö wrote:

Alactic wrote:

Any reason why you consistently ignore the advice to work with a coach? I am sure it is flattering that all these armchair coaches are willing to throw up their comprehensive training programs for you on this thread, but you clearly need an actual coach (preferably live and definitely not that j.s. creepo) to progress.

Hehehe! "...not that j.s creepo. " :) .... You are pointing at a coach that during 2 years have coached about 80-90 runners ,and all of them have improved. Two international marathon winners. Now lately a kenyan to win a 11.5 km road race in 31.43 min !!!Give me any runner and I make him/her to improve.

The only Wizard

What is your name and what is your Kenyan's name?

This is a giant, steaming load of crap.

Why do runners insist on making running fast seem so mystical? It isn't. You do the work, and the times follow. If you're following Daniels, then you already know the pain of the 1500m.

OP, like another poster said: You just might not have much talent. There's nothing wrong with that.

that ruddy webb wrote:

COACH J.S å ä ö wrote:

Hehehe! "...not that j.s creepo. " :) .... You are pointing at a coach that during 2 years have coached about 80-90 runners ,and all of them have improved. Two international marathon winners. Now lately a kenyan to win a 11.5 km road race in 31.43 min !!!Give me any runner and I make him/her to improve.

The only Wizard

What is your name and what is your Kenyan's name?

His name is Jan Stenson and the Kenyan is Moses Koyiaki.

Whether the Kenyan is coached by him or has improved is another matter.