Coach having us do quality work early in xc training

Looks like a pretty good offseason plan to me. Only concern would be the three harder days back to back. If that happens all summer, maybe ask what he'd think of shifting the hill repeats to Friday. Otherwise I think you'll be fine with this.

Same. This looks like a pretty good plan for aerobic strength building. Just make sure to run the workouts within yourself - that is, don't go to the well at all. Better to run a little too slow than too fast this time of year.

If you start doing the tough, going-to-the-well, anaerobic training soon, though, THEN I would say something.

xctrainer wrote:

Hi Letsrun,

My coach is having us do quality workouts early in the season and Im worried I might peak too early. Heres an example of a week in early July

M- Fartlek (including w/u and c/d + striders total 8)

T- 8 easy

W- Marathon paced run (including w/u and c/d + striders total 7)

T- 7 easy

F- 8 easy

S- 1,000 meter hill repeats @ threshold pace (including w/u and c/d + striders total 8)

S- Long run 13 miles

Total comes to 60 miles. In doing these sessions in early July will I peak too early. And if so how do I approach my coach about it?

High School or College?

college

I feel like this is a troll, but...

You might want to talk to your coach about his his entire training plan that will get you to peak at the right time. Understanding how the pieces fit together will give you more confidence to execute workouts optimally.

These are very modest workouts. If they are this concerning to you, it indicates that you have a serious lack of confidence in your coach. That needs to be resolved for the benefit of you, your coach, and your team.

I agree with the others. I don't see a ton of grinding type of work here. You already made the comment of being in early xc training, you should execute your workouts as such. Therefore, you shouldn't be trying to get into all out type feeling in these workouts. Run the tempos comfortably hard, obviously your marathon paced run is going to be slower than your tempo paces and faster than your easy runs, the fartlek should be quick and light focus on form and less on pace, as always your easy runs should be just that, comfortably easy. You shouldn't be straining on any of your workouts to maintain pace, if you are then you're trying too hard too soon.

The workouts are at a slow pace, mp and threshold. The strides are to improve your speed. Stop questioning your coach. He knows what he's doing.

As you move on in the season, the paces will get down to mile for shorter intervals, V02 max for longer, and threshold for longer tempos.

Seems like a sound plan to me. Bear in mind that even Lydiard had his guys run at a variety of paces (including some "quality") during the base period, with a weekly fartlek session and a goodly number of hills (those really couldn't be very easily avoided in that neighborhood).

Agree with others above: As long as you're not "pushing" any of the sessions now, you should be fine. And IMHO running at a variety of paces will make you more resistant to injury than if you just did a bunch of slow mileage.

Assuming you're a female.

Tracktownpizza wrote:

Looks like a pretty good offseason plan to me. Only concern would be the three harder days back to back. If that happens all summer, maybe ask what he'd think of shifting the hill repeats to Friday. Otherwise I think you'll be fine with this.

Agree.

lease wrote:

And IMHO running at a variety of paces will make you more resistant to injury than if you just did a bunch of slow mileage.

This point cannot be overstated. Jumping into "in-season" training without any prep causes way too many injuries than it should. Train to train, then train to race.

xctrainer wrote:

Hi Letsrun,

My coach is having us do quality workouts early in the season and Im worried I might peak too early. Heres an example of a week in early July

M- Fartlek (including w/u and c/d + striders total 8)

T- 8 easy

W- Marathon paced run (including w/u and c/d + striders total 7)

T- 7 easy

F- 8 easy

S- 1,000 meter hill repeats @ threshold pace (including w/u and c/d + striders total 8)

S- Long run 13 miles

Total comes to 60 miles. In doing these sessions in early July will I peak too early. And if so how do I approach my coach about it?

Looks really good for off-season or very early season. Fartlek w/ "striders" for leg speed maintenance. Hills--YES, always for XC. You got decent but not over-the-top mileage. Temp-pace work. Easy runs for recovery. This is exactly the schedule that I should have been on during off-season many, many years ago. Instead, I was in the faulty LSD (long, slow distance) "base" off-season mindset that NOBODY decent follows anymore for XC or middle-distance prep. Coach knows his stuff, I think.

Unless you're doing an extremely hard fartlek, 20 by 1k hill repeats, and crushing your long run, this seems like standard base training for a collegiate runner. If not, maybe a little less than normal.

90-100 miles a week + those "sessions" might be a bit much depending your age and running history.

Without any more information, I'd say shutup and grind.

Nah this is too much. How many college kids are act gonna be responsible with a workload like this? 1km hills at tempo.. I doubt most guys will keep a "tempo" effort on these and slip into that vO2max/lactic acid accumulation zone. IMO not what you want your guys to be messing with in July.

I like magness' philosophy of working the poles. (higher end aerobic/tempo and short fast stuff with big rest)

1 day 200 - 400s/hills w/ plenty of rest

1 day marathon or conservative tempo pace

1 long run

I like the idea of building that big aerobic engine while learning to be comfortable/economical at high speeds. Once the boys get on campus, competition in workouts and races will take care of the rest.

As a HS coach reading this....I'm glad to get the reinforcement that I'm doing the right thing. Develop all facets of your running/training throughout the summer phase. Low mileage and intensities based on where you are at and grow throughout the summer with built in recovery weeks. If all you do is run LSD I guarantee you will get better at only one thing...running slow.

It's amazing how this plan works for roughly 20 weeks with very little taper resulting in consistently high performance when it counts the most. A good coach knows when to employ the art of the program with the science but great communication about the "Why" of what you are doing is really important to that trust element. You may need to stimulate that in your coach in a non threatening way.

I use this with all of my kids no matter their level of talent or readiness. Those that commit the time in the summer see the greatest gains and remain healthy throughout the season. Nothing like witnessing the confidence level increase dramatically in my best and not so fast runners that buy into the system.

Sure, there are those that won't each year, even some of my better athletes but it's their race and their team. I'm just there to show them the way. If they care about each other, they will do it for each other and those years are truly special. My team went in to the state meet ranked 12th and finished 5th last year. No trophy but by golly we felt pretty good about peaking when it counts. We do it every year no matter how talented we are or aren't and typically others are just left shaking their heads or making excuses.

The secret for us is that no matter how things turn out, trophy or not, we know we are ready and typically do not worse than what we are ready for. It's unrealistic to think we are going to perform some impossible feat when 20 weeks of training tells us exactly where we are. It's up to the other schools to live up to their potential as well as us. We just do that better than most and understand why.

How long is the marathon-paced run?

How many hill repeats? On that, how do you figure out your threshold pace?

Runbayou.com

I don't use this in the summer preparation phase. Threshold is just comfortably hard, wherever they are. Interval work is a generic number for a variety of groups based on experience that adds up to a faster pace than they run on the roads. Kids can switch groups during the workout until they find the right group that they feel they can work together with and gain confidence from. Easy/talking pace is just that for whatever duration they are assigned per group. Hills are done at 5k pace and not hard. Just want them to gain confidence and not be afraid of hills. We don't do marathon pace.

We do a 2 mile time trial on grass to get a number to start with the first week of official practice. I figure even the kids that weren't consistent in the summer can give a good effort for that duration so I can form training groups. 2 weeks later we run our first 5k race and I reassess the groups, then every three weeks after that. By the 4th race of the season there isn't much shifting in training groups except for the kid that is finally getting caught up from under training in the summer or the talented freshman that needed some time to figure things out but they probably still wouldn't be at full volumes or intensities of the older varsity kids.

Similar workouts to me. Only concern would be 3 workouts a week, you should be doing 2 but your coach is giving you the right kinds of workouts so just stick with the plan.

Youre doing these wkouts in July? Hell no......Unless ur doing a marathon here soon (god Forbid), youre a sprinter or youre going to Europe to do the Diamond League.......This is Too damn early....Good Gosh, whats wrong with these coaches? I didnt do wrkouts like this til mid October with plenty of steady states and tempo runs Before...On grass .I did 10-12 weeks in the summmer, every summer, the only hard run those week was the long run closing at sub 6 mins .....then aerobic type work in mid Sept thru early Nov with some faster work before Conf/Nats....save the real work for the track after Indoors.....You want a long career or Flame out in 2-4 yrs as I've seen many, many times......Good Gosh. You do that plan you have And you will peak early every time....and the same in the spring, Too much early speedwork will cost you, period.