Hamilton suspended for two years

some good details on the case, the test and Hamilton's defense here @ cyclingnews.com

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=features/2005/hamilton_decision

WTF, i agree with everything you've said so far.

it is a huge problem when they are relying on scientific data that is qualitative rather than quantitative and the tests need to be standardized. also, in the dissenting opinion, hamilton's wife's worry about getting a fair trial is very interesting. WADA officials went head hunting as soon as the results were out and before the hearing, a huge problem, and could have easily influenced the way the tests and opinions were done/formed. in the dissenting opinion an "expert" committe went and re-evaluated hamilton's olympic sample, which was ruled negative in august, and then ruled it positive. that shouldn't happen and points to someone being out to get hamilton.

that said i personally think the probability that he was doping is high enough for me to think that he is guilty. BUT, i don't think he should be banned because of the problems with the test and the lack of justification by numbers of the freaking WADA lab.

i agree with you too - mostly because it's kind of a dumb way to dope. wouldn't you think that if he were going to dope that he'd sure use something that was a bit harder to detect than someone else's blood? there are just more sophisticated ways to get the same effect. this type of doping is too old school these days.

when's the last time someone was busted for this type of doping? something just doesn't smell right in this one.

once an elliptical wrote:

i agree with you too - mostly because it's kind of a dumb way to dope. wouldn't you think that if he were going to dope that he'd sure use something that was a bit harder to detect than someone else's blood? there are just more sophisticated ways to get the same effect. this type of doping is too old school these days.

when's the last time someone was busted for this type of doping? something just doesn't smell right in this one.

Thee type of blood doping you are talking about wasn't able to be tested for until this test came out... I bet if Tyler knew that his transfusions could be detected, he would have stuck with spinning his own blood down and reinserting it at a later time. Before you couldn't tell if it was your blood or if it was from someone else, but this test solves that problem. Now, we just can't tell when the RBC were created. If it was his own blood, it would have been a lot harder to catch Hamilton.

for those of you asking how such a "nice clean cut young man" could possibly cheat, consider the circumstances of Tyler's career. At age 33 he is/was approaching his peak. He would be 37 at the next Games so if he wanted medal it was 04 or nothing. He had just changed teams from CSC-Tiscali to Phonak for HUGE money and if you read the cycling websites you would know he was under much pressure to produce for them. Phonak had budget problems after they signed Tyler and had to pull in some last minute sponsors to meet his salary. They wanted results. He had a very mediocre spring. He has the 3 mortgages (verona, boulder, someplace else). In cycling you are only as good as your last race. I think he had every reason in the world to turn to desperate measures.

Not 100% sure on this, but I thought there was another cyclist, around the same time as TH, that was caught for the same thing. Anyone know for sure?

There was another guy from Tyler's team who was also hit with a 2 year suspension based on the same test...

This is something else that really brings to question. Why would Tyler use blood doping when he already knew the UCI was interested in his blood results and indicated he would be suggested to more testing throughout 2004?

I seriously have a hard time believing he would if he knew he was under scrutiny already. Seems very odd!

If Wejo told you to vote for GWBush would you agree with him on that too? Make up your own damn mind instead of relying on Wejo's opinion.

zubrek wrote:

Not 100% sure on this, but I thought there was another cyclist, around the same time as TH, that was caught for the same thing. Anyone know for sure?

Yes, Santi Perez. A teamate of Tylers.

moose feet wrote:

I was kind of giving him the benefit of the doubt until he came out with this total BS "imaginary twin" defense. My wife is a PhD in microbiology and told me about it and I couldn't stop laughing. I'm sorry but after hearing that crap he's guilty.

That wasn't the defense he used jackass, maybe your wife the microbiologist can teach you how to read or read the actual ruling to you.

Maybe she can also teach you about the idea of a control.

Madein_82 wrote:

Believe whatever the hell, you want. if you read the report there is no indication whatsoever, that the test is any way flawed or SIGNIFICANLTY prone to error.

this was the last cyclist i would have expected to dope.

i actually had respect for him, thats what i get for respecting a cyclists.

what a worthless sport.

Prove this statement dude. the only evidence I can find about false positive rates gives them at about 1.1% and that a non-biased lab would have likely found all tests performed on tylers blodd to be negative.

Yeah, you're totally right then, he's so obviously innocent, dude.

that is way too suspicious for me. What are the odds of a teammate having the dissappearing fetus thing as a child too?...

they should have tested the entire team

Madein_82 wrote:

yeah it means hes a scrawny white american, and probably a republican, i remmber when eddy was caught, they had someone write a defence for him , and post it.

and the diff. between Lagat and Hamiliton, is hamiliton tested positive TWICE.

and, in hamilitons case the samples that were treated properly, were the ones that turned up positive.

This proves beyound a shadow of a doubt that you didn't bother to read the report. Because in fact none of the three samples that were tested were reported to have been mishandled.

You are in fact a delusional moron who can not admit that he was wrong and that he spouted off before he knew the facts of the case or bothered to read the actual ruling.

You disgust me. It is people like you that allow facism to exist.

“There is no division of opinion or conflicting evidence that indicates any dispute between the various experts and the published scientific literature that the flow cytometry methodology can identify a mixed blood population. THE RELIABILITY OF THE FLOW CYTOMETER TO IDENTIFY TWO BLOOD POPULATIONS IS NOT CHALLENGED IN THESE PROCEEDINGS.”

Page six , of twenty.

Are you really to stupid to tell the difference between the generic "flow cytometer" and the specific testing senario.

The validity of test proceedure is exactly what the defenses case rests on. In fact the reliability of the test has been proven to be poor in the case, specifically the Athens lab found the histogram negative by the published standard(and via the dissenting opinion likely the other two test also) while the lab that created the test found the same histogram to be positive! Repeatability ever hear of it moron!

Bad Science I have been arguing all day. Thanks man!

hmmmm wrote:

that is way too suspicious for me. What are the odds of a teammate having the dissappearing fetus thing as a child too?...

they should have tested the entire team

This chimerra was not the crux of the argument!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This chimerra was not the crux of the argument!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This chimerra was not the crux of the argument!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This chimerra was not the crux of the argument!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This chimerra was not the crux of the argument!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can you people get this out of your heads!!!!!!

The test was scientifically flawed on numerous levels

and the testing was performed in astonishingly un-ethical way!!!!

The very results are at question! not whether he had a twin vanished or not, but whther the testing proceedure can be used to confirm that he had a mixed RBC population

Its frustrating that peopel look at the obvious facts or a few sentences but dont understand anything about the actual test or procedure itself or what they are defining a postive test.

I just cannot believe this. The doping agencies wanted proof this test will find dopers and unfortunately Tyler was one of the first victims of a test that has no validity.