Top 5 MBA, Can't Get A Job

Hire Power wrote:

It's just not the sought-after degree it once was. Our best marketing folks are those that we've promoted from field sales positions. Many of them were earning a fortune in sales but got tired of the quota-carrying and moved into marketing.

Why not jump into a sales gig?

Good luck.

People seem to think I'm likable, but I'm not sure how well I would do in sales given that I haven't been able to sell myself well enough to get a job...How exactly does one get into sales? All of the sales/account management positions that seem to be targeting MBAs** are for either tech or finance and are looking for directly relevant prior experience.

**before everyone starts going on their entitled, useless MBA rants, me saying "targeting MBAs" does not mean that I think I'm too good for certain jobs. It means that in order for a hiring process to even start, the assumption needs to be there that my expectations (salary, quality of work, etc) match the role!!

What roles are you interviewing for?

Benjamins Button wrote:

You are the problem. Judging from how self-obsessed you are about your "top-5 MBA" and "how unbelievably easy your internship was" you probably come off as a pompous tool in your interviews. You could always be a financial analyst for 40-50k a year while searching, but looks like your too good for that. Best of luck.

Agreed

"Not rocket science...". "Zero opportunity..."

Coming off as pompous, entitled millennial.

That sir sounds like the problem

You either are pompous and entitled

Or

You sound like it

Remember, you have very little skills to offer in the workplace. You should be grateful of any opportunity offered to you. Do not piss on it.

Statement about internship should have been

"It was a great learning experience. I got to see interworkings of a company and learned x, y and z. I was grateful for the experience and appreciate the time, money and effort that the company put into me during the period when I was there."

Not.

"What I was doing wasn't rocket science. I am way too good for that. There were zero opportunities there. I wish that the environment would have been better for me (because I am a special snowflake and need to be catered to at all times. I am very special and tremendous)."

Fix your problem and you will get a job.

MBA Fail wrote:

john utah wrote:

Folks here are overly harsh.

You'll be fine. Take advantage of the benefits of not having a stressful grind at the moment. You've got decades and decades of grind in front of you.

I'd advise my kids to be very careful about entering a highly stressful and demanding field. If there is any way to minimize the rat race factor I would take that path if I were starting over.

Honestly, I would rather grind it out during the beginning of my career when I'm young than decide to play catch-up later on. The reality is that the former investment bankers had a huge advantage in recruiting no matter what career they were going into.

I can see the logic in your statement, but in my experience reality doesn't work like that. It only gets worse as you advance, not better. You just trade hours of grunt work for similar hours doing other things plus loads more stress and responsibility on top of family responsibilities. Again, it depends on the industry, but I would say that professional jobs in the corp/business world don't get less demanding and less stressful as you advance.

Again, without knowing what you want to do, you are really fighting an uphill battle. You are already at a big disadvantage for lots of jobs given your undergrad major and minimal business work experience. But it is what it is so no need to worry about that. It's a big world out there. There are a million ways to skin the cat and make a living outside of the narrow perspective of the investment banker / McKinzey consultant type of path / career.

MBA Fail wrote:

Again, reading... some way or another.

0/10

^Obvious troll

I've done a mock interview with career services and they said that they didn't identify any red flags. I have good presentation skills and speak well, so I can say pretty confidentially that it isn't a public speaking or nervousness issue. I get the sense that I lean more towards the nice guy end of the spectrum than the overly aggressive side of things. I was promoted at my previous job, so there is at least some evidence that I can perform in a corporate environment. Grade non-disclosure is the norm for almost all top business schools.

It's very difficult to get brutally honest feedback...Any advice on how to get this would be appreciated. From your experience, what usually distinguishes someone you choose to hire from others who made it to the final round? I've even had a job re-posted after I did a final round interview.

What is your 5K time?

OP - maybe you're not a pompous tool, but you've presented yourself in a way that has led multiple readers to conclude that you are. Maybe that's your problem - presenting yourself in a way that comes across as arrogant.

Or maybe you're perfect and everyone else is the problem.

This may be true for some bush league MBA program, but it's certainly not true for a top 30-school, let alone a top-5 school (which is Harvard, Stanford, Wharton, Kellogg, and Booth IMO). Top MBA programs want at least 2 years work experience, and the average is 4-6 years.

Dude, I seriously doubt he answered his formal interview questions in the way your are describing. Get real. Duh. I think before he said he tried to spin his experience in the most positive way possible, just as you are suggesting.

Plus, it's not about bullshit canned responses. Everybody says the same thing. Interviewers are smarter than that. It's the specific experience and specific skills you bring.

MBA Fail wrote:

I've done a mock interview with career services and they said that they didn't identify any red flags.

Your posts indicate tons of red flags. Give a copy of your comments made here to a career services person and ask them to comment. You will never do that because it would reveal the real you and not the fake personality you present in real interviews.

Mock interviews are like asking your sister to do a mock date and ask her what she thinks about your pickup lines. You get a mock response that makes you feel good. But in reality an epic fail.

I've interviewed many people in my career. It's not about some kind of interviewing technique or trick. It's really about matching your skills and experience with my needs. You can be the best dude in the world and have a Phd from MIT in physics, but if you don't have experience and the specific skills I need then i'm not interested. That woudl be different if my company had some kind of elaborate training program, but we don't and I don't think anyone in my industry does. I don't hire on some kind of upper management potential down the road. I hire on what we need right now.

You need a second opinion. Perhaps career services at your school aren't great? This is the first thing you should do, IMO.

TBH, in a sea of applicants from good schools, it is the personal details that make someone stand out. Number one red flag for me is arrogance. I can't stand it. I want someone to be humble, hungry, and eager to learn. You all know sweet FA in my eyes, I'm looking for someone who shows me they will be WILLING and ABLE to learn and work hard (and also someone I can stand to be in an office with for 8-12 hours a day without wanting to strangle). I like people who are honest about themselves: Nothing is worse than someone trying to BS on a topic in an interview when they clearly know nothing. It's ok to say you don't know. As long as you know everything you claim on your resume, you're safe.

john utah wrote:

I've interviewed many people in my career. It's not about some kind of interviewing technique or trick. It's really about matching your skills and experience with my needs.

Experienced interviewers note body language, eye movement and tone of voice. You might not even realize you do those as part of your interview. Not making eye contact is not critical--not a hiring stopper. Moving eyes at certain points in an interview is what is important. Pupil dilation is something police investigators are taught to look for.

Art Vandelay the fake one wrote:

OP - maybe you're not a pompous tool, but you've presented yourself in a way that has led multiple readers to conclude that you are. Maybe that's your problem - presenting yourself in a way that comes across as arrogant.

Or maybe you're perfect and everyone else is the problem.

Hmm, so you genuinely believe that all of the reactions on this board are appropriate and not people making obnoxious comments because they're identity is anonymous? Or that the shared conclusions that I'm arrogant aren't due to shared stereotypes people have about MBAs?

MBA Fail wrote:

Hmm, so you genuinely believe that all of the reactions on this board are appropriate and not people making obnoxious comments because they're identity is anonymous?

Is MBA Fail your real name?

Interviewer wrote:

john utah wrote:

I've interviewed many people in my career. It's not about some kind of interviewing technique or trick. It's really about matching your skills and experience with my needs.

Experienced interviewers note body language, eye movement and tone of voice. You might not even realize you do those as part of your interview. Not making eye contact is not critical--not a hiring stopper. Moving eyes at certain points in an interview is what is important. Pupil dilation is something police investigators are taught to look for.

Maybe for losers in the HR department. Managers and executives pay attention to more important things unless the candidate is obviously a weirdo.

Hi OP,

Since you've gotten precious little informed advice in this thread so far, so I thought I would chime in. I'm also a graduate of a top MBA program (~10 years ago at this point). Immediately post-MBA I spent several years at one of the top three management consulting firms. Since then I've worked for companies ranging in size from Fortune 50 to a 100 person start-up, and also for a PE firm in an operating role.

Here's how I read your situation:

- Your no offer was a read flag to employers during your 2nd year OCR. You made it to the final rounds, but when it came down to you and similarly qualified candidates that no offer was a deal breaker. Sucks, but that is how MBA recruiting (at least for top consulting and finance roles) works.

- There is no shame in striking out on OCR for top consulting or finance. Everyone knows it is very competitive. However the fact that your graduating jobless is a huge red flag to employers from here on out. Any hiring manager recommending you to a hiring committee is exposing themselves to real risk should you not work out.

- You know as well as I that recruiting channels for top MBAs are either very formal (i.e. OCR) or completely informal (i.e. through personal networks). For you the formal channels have closed.

What you need to do now:

- Engage your schools alumni network. Look for alumni working in areas that rely almost exclusively on informal hiring channels. These are going to be earlier stage companies (seed stage or earlier), established companies in undesirable/tertiary markets, or small consulting shops in highly specialized fields (based on what you've said about your background some kind of niche government consulting could be an option).

- Develop a focused story on why you are where you are - still recruiting for a post-MBA role after OCR. The story needs to explain the red flags in your history in a way that takes away the risk for the hiring manager. The story needs to be something like this:

1) I came into my MBA with a very well defined goal - which is to do exactly what the company you're interviewing with does;

2) I was lured into doing a CPG internship because I got caught up in the excitement/social pressure/momentum of OCR;

3) I realized during my internship that I needed to refocus on my original goal;

4) I largely skipped OCR to focus on that goal, instead reaching out to alumni and companies doing exactly what I want to do (be ready to point to several examples/actions that support this)

- Be willing to be flexible on comp. You should understand by now that you're not likely getting the standard top-MBA $135K + 20% bonus. Now if you get offered $50K, obviously turn that down unless it is a non-profit or a start-up offering you a bunch of equity. Realistically your shooting for ~$95-$110K base, hopefully some bonus potential, and (most importantly) some kind of upward trajectory.

Good Luck

Interviewing isn't the mystery that many people seem to believe it to be.

1) Research the company (for instance, flip their latest 10-K/Q)

2) Ask educated questions based on your research

3) Be prepared to explain how your background and experience would help you in succeeding in the position you are applying for.

4) Don't otherwise blow it (i.e. be relaxed/able to have a conversation/have decent appearance).