Easy pace still around 9:30/mi after a year of solid training. Tired of being so slow.

I am no expert at training for the half, but I do know a lot about 5k and under.

First: a slow easy pace is nothing to be ashamed of. I run 4:38 in the mile, and I am in shape to run about 9:58ish and 16:20ish for 2 miles and 5k respectively, and I do easy runs at 8:30. My 5k pace is 2 minutes faster than yours, but my easy pace is only 1 minute faster than yours.

Second, according your statsgangsta's calculator, here are your supposed times:

1-mile 6:28.0

2-mile 13:32.87

5000 21:39.85

10000 45:17.0

half-mara 100:02.70

marathon 208:35.27

I used your mile PB and your 10k PB (half-thon and thon times are a bit finicky with logarithmic predictions because you run out of glycogen) to predict your other times. Your 10k is fantastic, and your 5k is weak compared to your others.

My area of expertise being 5k and below, I think that I could give advice for your goal of sub-20 in the 5k. If you keep your mileage above 35 while doing a few faster workouts and tempo runs, then you could improve your times at virtually all distances. That means that if you improve your mile to 5:55, you will be able to run 20:00 in the 5k and 1:35 in the half.

Third: Here is a sample week of training under my type of plan. It diversifies your training in terms of pace, which makes you an overall better runner.

Mon - 6mi easy (9:30+)

Tue - 1mi warmup, 5mi tempo (7:45), 1mi cooldown

Wed - 8mi moderate (8:30)

Thu - 5x800m hills (5k effort or faster), walk/jog back down the hill

Fri - active recovery - short jog or bike ride

Sat - 1mi warmup, 3mi tempo (7:30), 1mi cooldown

Sun - 10mi progressive long run - do first 5 easy (9:30), then slowly speed up to 8:15 by the end.

To recap, speed is a necessary component of running. It saddens me when people expect to run good times 5k and up off of jogging their miles. Quality over quantity is key. Notice how that week I provided is only 45mpw, but there is a lot of quality running there. Good luck, and I will try to remember to revisit this page if you have questions.

One thing I like about your query is that you've obviously not trolling. Sometimes we're not sure. You're just seeking crowdsourced wisdom. That's something that the well-intentioned folks here--those of us who are that--should be able to provide.

I've spent much of my masters years (45-58) in exactly the time-territory you're interested in. PR of 19:28; quite a few sub-20's; now, at 59, happy to break 22.

When I was breaking 20, I was regularly averaging 45 mpw. The key to my training was easy 30 minute jogs 4 days a week: M/Tu/Th/Sat. I discovered as a much younger runner that I couldn't run 6-7 days a week at a moderate pace. Either I ran short/easy, or I ran longer/harder. On my "off" days, I was a jogging fool. Easy/recovery pace these days remains pretty much what it's always been: 9:30-10:15 pace, depending on a range of factors, including the heat, humidity, my weight, intensity of the previous day's workout. On particularly good EZ days, I might get closer to 9:00 pace.

I think that those 7 pounds you mentioned make a big difference. As you lose them, your EZ pace will come down and your other workouts will speed up. Pick up Matt Fitzgerald's RACING WEIGHT for tips on how to lose. Three keys, for me: 1) water; 2) roughage; 3) avoid sugar, pasta, bread, other hi-glycemic carbs.

For a good 5K time, you need a solid aerobic base, tempo runs of 2-3 miles, and some repeat miles, 800s, and 400s.

Two workouts have proved over the years to offer particularly good bang for the buck.

1) tempo intervals, aka Mono fartlek (named after Steve Moneghetti). Instead of a regular 3 mile tempo, run .25 hard, .25 float for the first two and a half miles, then finish with a half mile a little bit slower than the hard pace. Hard pace is 3K; the final half mile is more like 5K pace. That last half mile, after what came before, is a pretty good guide to the 5K pace that you can actually hold. You can run the hard portions faster or slower, depending on how you feel. On the float sections, start by jogging (after the hard segment), then, when your heartrate drops to marathon pace, lock in and accelerate slightly until the next hard stretch.

2) Short steep hill repeats. I do 4-6 and they take exactly 60 seconds. Start with 4 and build up to 6. No need to hammer; if the hill is steep enough, the pain will come. My HR as I drop to a stop twenty yards beyond the crest is about 95% of max. First one easier; then slowly make 'em hurt.

Those two workouts, combined with a regular Sunday 2 hour run (first hour easy; second hour brisk, trending towards tempo if I'm feeling better) get me most of the way to the times you're gunning for.

You'll notice that Alabama runner and I offer training plans with quite a bit of overlap. I run longer on Sunday (13-14), but 10 is probably just fine for most 5K runners. (I was always running some 10Ks & a half in the same season, which needs more miles). 800 meter hills are fine for VO2max, and I've done them for that, but the short steep hills I'm talking about are really about quad strength and form; they add measurable length to your stride and give you a kind of explosive power that really helps your speed. Ideally, you'd find a blend of BOTH hill distances, since train needed things.

You don't need tempo runs of more than 3 miles for 5Ks.

I like Alabama's long run pickups. When I'm early season, my long runs stay easy, all miles between 9:45 and 9:00 pace. But once I'm in shape, I may start at 9:30, average 9:20 for the first 7 miles, and then average 8:20s for the last 7 miles. Five or six years ago, I regularly ran the last hour at 7:50-7:55 at a HR that ranged from 85-90% of max. "Banging it out" is what the Colorado runners called it--or so I've read. :)

Pics?

Thank y'all all so much for such great responses. I think I have a lot of great information to go on and I see a few key things I can really start improving on pretty quickly here, namely incorporating hills and a few different speed points during the week. Especially emphasizing tempo runs a little more slowly than I've been trying to do them so far this year and doing shorter faster intervals than I've ever done before. I love the simple fartlek too.

Luckily I have some experience with the progression long runs, which I'll admit I have a love-hate relationship with, but I definitely understand their value.

After I get my mileage back up in a few weeks, I'm going to start incorporating these ideas in training and hopefully I'll be able to report some positive progress in a couple of months.

Again, thank you for helping. I really appreciate it.

In my honest opinion, first fix whatever it is you have going on with your ITB. Second, do not start up a plan right away. Simply lace up, go out for a 25 min run 5 to 6 days a week. Eventually work up to 50 min runs 5 days a week. Make your long run (6th day) up to 90 minutes. After you can do this consistently week after week with no significant injuries, pat yourself on the back for you finally achieved base aerobic training. NOW, you can start thinking about training plans and goal races. It's easy to get caught up in chasing big goals too soon. I believe you can certainly hit those goals but you need to take it one day at a time and prioritize being consistent with training or you'll feel like you'll never get there.

Best advice i read somewhere was "try to end every run like you could have went longer and faster if you wanted to". Basically I took that as feel really good at the end of my runs not spent or trashed. But rather really strong. Of course when you get to speedwork you'll feel a little beat up, but not like a pile of dog crap. Save the gut busting pain for race day or key workouts.

KudzuRunner wrote:

One thing I like about your query is that you've obviously not trolling.

I don't know, man.

The strides had alarm bells going off. "Should I be taking full recovery?" If you know enough to ask that question, why would you be taking only 30 seconds?

And later, 6x800 "a few weeks ago"? I thought she was on the shelf, waiting to see the PT. Plus the 800s were really slow. Like "hey, nobody criticized my strides, I need to up the ante."

Maybe it's legit. But when was the last time you saw a "+1 me too" post (Thanks for your courage) beat out the wise-ass comment (give up) as the first response? It's just all too suspicious.

Alan Bennet wrote:

KudzuRunner wrote:

One thing I like about your query is that you've obviously not trolling.

I don't know, man.

The strides had alarm bells going off. "Should I be taking full recovery?" If you know enough to ask that question, why would you be taking only 30 seconds?

And later, 6x800 "a few weeks ago"? I thought she was on the shelf, waiting to see the PT. Plus the 800s were really slow. Like "hey, nobody criticized my strides, I need to up the ante."

Maybe it's legit. But when was the last time you saw a "+1 me too" post (Thanks for your courage) beat out the wise-ass comment (give up) as the first response? It's just all too suspicious.

Pfitzinger's book that I've been working from suggested about 30s recovery on the strides. Other people I've spoken to take longer rest, but I'm always cautious of straying too far from a plan, so I've just been sticking to what the book said. I was looking for more input, though, since what I'm doing hasn't done much for me lately.

The 6x800 workout was about five days before the IT band pain started back up. Sorry my 800s are slow, but that's sort of the whole point of the post so...

Too many slow base miles. You have a decent speed. Ratchet up the runs at a faster pace a couple of times per week. You're young still so you can let it all out. If all your runs are done at easy pace, you will just get good at running at that pace.

Your 5k should be about a minute faster with that half time. It suggests you're missing some top end. Keep your mileage but instead of stretching it to "finish" half marathons, use it to focus on 5k. Get some anaerobic work in. Get used to running and racing faster.

Strides at the end of your slow/easy days.

Find a slightly faster training partner.

Once you get some top end back, re visit the longer distances... (with the appropriate mileage as well).

The first thing I would do as a coach is have you slow down to 10:30-11:30 for your easy runs, heal that ITB (doing strides barefoot in grass being a first step). You are training too fast for most your miles, too slow for the quality. The classic hobbyjogger error.

KudzuRunner is probably right about the tempo, and I should revise to 25min tempo. For you, I that comes out to a bit over 3mi, but for me, that's a bit over 4. That's why I was off by a bit. And I totally agree with Kudzu about the shorter hills, and I incorporate them into my base training, but I was a bit hesitant to include straight-up speedwork into a training plan for a half-marathoner.

If you want to focus on the 5k, then consider my training week from a few posts up, with a few revisions:

-Cut the 5mi tempo to 3mi (7:30ish)

-On alternating weeks, replace the Saturday tempo with 8x80m hill sprints (run these very fast, take full recovery)

-If you like long runs, maybe increase the Sunday run to 12-14mi, but still do the first half easy and the second half progression.

I mentioned statsgangsta's calculator, which is a great tool for finding out what you could run at a distance if you have run 2 other races recently. It also tells you your VO2 max pace and your LT pace.

timescalculator.appspot.com

I'm in the camp where you should build up the quantity of your base miles slowly while pushing against that 9:30 pace. Some short strides/fartlek/easy hills are fine. Jumping right into a training plan will only set you up for your next ITBS. Daniels has beginner training plans, I think they are coded red, white and blue that might be more appropriate for someone who hasn't been running XC and track since they were 12. Even these should be started after you have an injury free base.

Note to self: say youre female and people will try much harder to help you

lots of great advice. I won't throw anymore out in fear of just clearing too much to process.

I think the 5/6x800 times are a good measure of speed/fitness. One daughter and myself would run 6x800 in 3:10. she ran about 19:45 equivalent translating up from 4k. I ran 21:30. other daughter ran 3:25s and runs a 22:30. This is a hard workout. no holding back like you would on 200s. In my opinion if you can go 5-10s faster on the last 2 you aren't working this workout hard enough.

You put in more miles than they do so should have some strength to compensate but you are giving up a lot with the 4:05.

anything you can do to get more comfortable at faster speeds is critical. Obviously you aren't going to improve base speed by much. but you want to get comfortable at pace at a higher percentage of your top speed.

I personally like 200 repeats for that. we've done 12 or 16 at 48-44. they aren't so long or fast that you become aerobic or a strain. it's all about finding a comfortable fast pace and becoming more efficient in your stride.

Keep using that 800 as a measure. when that time comes down guaranteed your 5k time comes down.

it's always a pleasure to come across someone committed to learning more and getting better. It's called being passionate about your pursuits. Cheers to you.

Ehh.

As a girl who has run times in the range you are aiming for, I'm going to chime in.

1) Don't focus on losing weight, it won't help that much and will come naturally as you increase mileage. I am faster at 110 than I was at 95 because I have more muscle and can withstand more training w/o injury. (5'4)

2) Get moving on your easy runs - make them "moderate" instead, like a relaxed tempo type thing. Everyone at letsrun is obsessed with running your easy runs like you are a turtle. When I'm just getting back into shape after injury or whatever, I like to keep my easy runs between 7:30 and 8:00 pace. Then when I get in shape and start doing workouts (which I need to recover from), I slow down my easy run pace to 8:30. Right now, you aren't in shape. Doing strides isn't going to replace the aerobic fitness you need to be fast at your goal distances.