Why so concerned with retirement?

That's assuming a certain level of income and other circumstances.

For example for most people in London being able to purchase any property precludes opportunity to save.

In the past companies had decent pensions benefits now they largely don't or they are broken down by being forced to move job frequently.

Personal pensions are being replaced by investment in rental property which most cannot afford.

I'm sure the same applies to many in America.

business trek wrote:

How about live your whole life as an 8 and the last 15 years as a 6 instead of your whole life as a 6 and the last 15 as a 7

How do you live as a 6 in the last 15 years if you don't have anything in your retirement account? You are not counting on other people's tax money (i.e. public assistance), are you?

Will be a combination from a few different sources. Public pension, kids/family, emergency fund, part-time work etc. I'm counting on other people's tax money the same way anyone else is.

A middle class tax payer wrote:

business trek wrote:

How about live your whole life as an 8 and the last 15 years as a 6 instead of your whole life as a 6 and the last 15 as a 7

How do you live as a 6 in the last 15 years if you don't have anything in your retirement account? You are not counting on other people's tax money (i.e. public assistance), are you?

Am I the only person that doesn't think travel is the ultimate goal in life?

I live in Colorado and I'm pretty happy staying here. Everything you need is here.

I'd almost always rather be skiing, hiking, camping, trail running, playing tennis, or swimming right here vs sightseeing in another country. Also, travel is a bit of a pain in the ass and can be quite expensive. There are a few places I'd like to go, but if it never happens I'd be ok with that. Not a huge deal for me.

Nope! Lot's of rednecks who assume they are in the greatest land ever are closed off to experiencing new people and cultures. Ignorance is bliss! (not even saying that sarcastically - it actually is)

John Utah wrote:

Am I the only person that doesn't think travel is the ultimate goal in life?

I live in Colorado and I'm pretty happy staying here. Everything you need is here.

I'd almost always rather be skiing, hiking, camping, trail running, playing tennis, or swimming right here vs sightseeing in another country. Also, travel is a bit of a pain in the ass and can be quite expensive. There are a few places I'd like to go, but if it never happens I'd be ok with that. Not a huge deal for me.

trumplove wrote:

Nope! Lot's of rednecks who assume they are in the greatest land ever are closed off to experiencing new people and cultures.

Ignorance is bliss! (not even saying that sarcastically - it actually is)

John Utah wrote:

Am I the only person that doesn't think travel is the ultimate goal in life?

I live in Colorado and I'm pretty happy staying here. Everything you need is here.

I'd almost always rather be skiing, hiking, camping, trail running, playing tennis, or swimming right here vs sightseeing in another country. Also, travel is a bit of a pain in the ass and can be quite expensive. There are a few places I'd like to go, but if it never happens I'd be ok with that. Not a huge deal for me.

One day, hopefully, you will mature and join the adult world.

John Utah wrote:

trumplove wrote:

Nope! Lot's of rednecks who assume they are in the greatest land ever are closed off to experiencing new people and cultures.

Ignorance is bliss! (not even saying that sarcastically - it actually is)

One day, hopefully, you will mature and join the adult world.

feel the same way about the pacnw. been around the world a lot, and i honestly just enjoy hiking, climbing, training running in the cascades/puget sound over most other "exotic" areas. and its easy to drive down to california for some warmer weather. i mean, if i had a private jet, sure, take me santiago chile for the weekend, but as an upper middle class person, travel is expensive, a pain often times, and involves lots of waiting and literal traveling.

Original Poster -

I see you have ignored my questions about the big picture of life and how you came to believe your claims about purpose and meaning. This is not surprising. Many people go through life trying to avoid such questions.

May I suggest that you are using travel and enjoyment to avoid these questions just like some people use work to avoid them? Same end, just a different form of distraction.

You stated earlier that we exist to travel, experience cultures, and meet people. I ask again, why do you believe this is true? How did you come to believe it? What if it comes into conflict with the sharing and community that you later referenced?

business trek wrote:

Will be a combination from a few different sources. Public pension, kids/family, emergency fund, part-time work etc.

I'm counting on other people's tax money the same way anyone else is.

Except that unlike most of us, you will have paid virtually nothing into the tax system. So basically you have chosen to mooch off people who have chosen to do something productive with their lives.

How do you look at yourself? wrote:

Except that unlike most of us, you will have paid virtually nothing into the tax system.

Sounds like we found the guy who always makes sure to notify police officers and public employees that "I pay your salary!"

Yeah, I mentioned them in my first post: running, drinking beer, watching Netflix, travel. We could also throw in hiking/exploring and trying new restaurants, those are fun too. But again, no one is going to pay me for that.

But I'm not interested in those things. Sure, they're fine I guess but they don't get me excited. Certainly not enough to make a big drastic change.

I see what's happening here: we have different interests. I genuinely like my interests, I don't think they are coping mechanisms. I have fun with them. If I won $10M dollars and never had to work again, I would continue to do those things. I'm not as excited about your interests - reading, studying, meeting new people. And that's fine, different strokes for different folks.

But getting back to my question - assuming I have interests A, B, and C, whatever those may be - but no one is going to pay me for doing A, B, and C, how do I get to doing what I love? I feel like you're making it out to be simple but it's not, and that's why most people come up with a plan B, which is to find something tolerable.

X-Runner wrote:

Another issue with the over-savers is that it takes money out of the economy today.

And that lack of spending hurts growth of investments.

To make an exaggerated point:

If everyone invested all of their disposable income, then companies would go out of business and people would lose their investments, not to mention their jobs.

You could actually retire and live well enough without saving anything if you just buy a house.

This is a joke, right? You don't honestly believe that we have a rash of over-savers in this country??

The OP has made an awfully big assumption: that if you work in a more traditional office setting, that you must be miserable, or that by definition, your job sucks.

It is quite possible to have a job in an office that you enjoy and that is a good fit for you. My job is a great fit for me: it's challenging, rewarding, technical and creative at the same time, and it's generally a good company. I'm able to save reasonably and yes, I get to travel.

Sure, not everyone is that happy with their job, but a good percentage of those people could find something more suited to them if they were willing to make different choices.

Do some people place too much emphasis on the money aspect of their jobs? Absolutely. But to act like there's no happy medium is a pretty big over-simplification.

I appreciate your comments but if you want to debate the meaning of life start another thread and let me know and we can chat there

Roger Murdock wrote:

Original Poster -

I see you have ignored my questions about the big picture of life and how you came to believe your claims about purpose and meaning. This is not surprising. Many people go through life trying to avoid such questions.

May I suggest that you are using travel and enjoyment to avoid these questions just like some people use work to avoid them? Same end, just a different form of distraction.

You stated earlier that we exist to travel, experience cultures, and meet people. I ask again, why do you believe this is true? How did you come to believe it? What if it comes into conflict with the sharing and community that you later referenced?

Start your tax policy thread elsewhere and I'll debate you. Your logic is completely flawed. By that logic paying tax is the only source of value and the less you make the more of a mooch you are. Ie. an aeronautical engineer making 150k is a mooch compared to a Wall Street broker.

How do you look at yourself? wrote:

business trek wrote:

Will be a combination from a few different sources. Public pension, kids/family, emergency fund, part-time work etc.

I'm counting on other people's tax money the same way anyone else is.

Except that unlike most of us, you will have paid virtually nothing into the tax system. So basically you have chosen to mooch off people who have chosen to do something productive with their lives.

Staying fit is great but if drinking and watching tv are your 2 main interests you are definitely using them as coping mechanisms - take my advice - you need to get out there, explore (places and topics) and find what you like and love.It sounds like you are a bit directionless and working 40 hours a week on something you only tolerate then drinking and watching tv is your avoidance.

You're right - they could (and should!) have made different choices. I've found it so rare that someone with a 9-5 office job is truly happy (on the surface and on paper sure but once deeper conversations ensue almost always not)What's your job? I bet it's quite a unique and rare position.

andicamp wrote:

The OP has made an awfully big assumption: that if you work in a more traditional office setting, that you must be miserable, or that by definition, your job sucks.

It is quite possible to have a job in an office that you enjoy and that is a good fit for you. My job is a great fit for me: it's challenging, rewarding, technical and creative at the same time, and it's generally a good company. I'm able to save reasonably and yes, I get to travel.

Sure, not everyone is that happy with their job, but a good percentage of those people could find something more suited to them if they were willing to make different choices.

Do some people place too much emphasis on the money aspect of their jobs? Absolutely. But to act like there's no happy medium is a pretty big over-simplification.

Business trek wrote:

I appreciate your comments but if you want to debate the meaning of life start another thread and let me know and we can chat there

Roger Murdock wrote:

Original Poster -

I see you have ignored my questions about the big picture of life and how you came to believe your claims about purpose and meaning. This is not surprising. Many people go through life trying to avoid such questions.

May I suggest that you are using travel and enjoyment to avoid these questions just like some people use work to avoid them? Same end, just a different form of distraction.

You stated earlier that we exist to travel, experience cultures, and meet people. I ask again, why do you believe this is true? How did you come to believe it? What if it comes into conflict with the sharing and community that you later referenced?

Hey, you started the meaning of life discussion when you stated that the reason we exist is to travel, experience cultures, and meet people. I in turn asked how you know that to be true.

And if you don't think one's attitude toward retirement, savings, and work are directly related to his or her perception of the meaning of life, well, that's some pretty serious cognitive dissonance going on there.

Business trek wrote:

I appreciate your comments but if you want to debate the meaning of life start another thread and let me know and we can chat there

Roger Murdock wrote:

Original Poster -

I see you have ignored my questions about the big picture of life and how you came to believe your claims about purpose and meaning. This is not surprising. Many people go through life trying to avoid such questions.

May I suggest that you are using travel and enjoyment to avoid these questions just like some people use work to avoid them? Same end, just a different form of distraction.

You stated earlier that we exist to travel, experience cultures, and meet people. I ask again, why do you believe this is true? How did you come to believe it? What if it comes into conflict with the sharing and community that you later referenced?

Hey, you started the meaning of life discussion when you stated that the reason we exist is to travel, experience cultures, and meet people. I in turn asked how you know that to be true.

And if you don't think one's attitude toward retirement, savings, and work are directly related to his or her perception of the meaning of life, well, that's some pretty serious cognitive dissonance going on there.