Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:
You do know that you are openly inviting in Rekrunner, Renato and the entire Nike PR department to denying this. Thanks alot another thread destroyed, might as well invite in Calculo while we're at it.
It's not fair to lump rekrunner in with these guys. He's just a skeptic and does back up his assertions with reasoning and evidence.
The podium picture here should do it. Japan has arguably the strongest depth of runners outside of East Africa, and they all lost to the Africans.
https://twitter.com/piiice7/status/838322633670156288/photo/1
It's a lot wrote:
Too lazy to google but the sheer number of East African men who run a marathon under 2:08 every year puts the US to shame
in the US would get more sub 2:08s if more of the country looked more like eldoret and less like soccer mom suburbs. > 75% of Americans can't even get a good run from their front door.
DontFeedTheTroll wrote:
If every east African man's five fastest marathon times were dropped, the world record would still be held by an east African.
If you were able to test the top 100 east africans throughout the season then the top 100 would test positive for a variety of banned substances.
Dope them up at an early age and make them run high mileage. Japan is starting to follow, but they are not doping them as early.
I'm glad to be alive and kicking. Thanks. It's interesting to me that again, despite my stated intention to talk statistics, and the OP's wish to not get into doping, you (and others) still want to turn a statistics thread into a doping thread. It seems to me the intellectual equivalent of a hammer looking at the screw and calling it a nail.Keeping it about statistics, as you must know from other threads, I find it statistically unlikely that, as early as 1988:- Selected East African nations, from Kenya and Ethiopia, obtained the medical knowledge, the funds, infrastructure, and sufficiently reliable electricity and refrigeration (to store their EPO and blood bags), to rapidly put in place a broadly comprehensive, deep, and highly effective, yet undetectable, EPO doping regime, lasting for two decades, the likes and scale of which has never been seen before or since, in any sport, for any drug, that in 1988, included the pool of the top 10 senior men, and 8 or 9 out of the top 10 or 11 juniors.- While for that year and for two decades afterwards -- before anti-doping landmarks like the ABP, and the 2nd generation EPO test finally (allegedly) defeated EPO doping East Africans (except the ones that turned to the marathon) -- elite athletes representing 85-90% of the global world population, from countries that actively competed and used to be competitive, that also possessed the same medical knowledge, more funds, better infrastructure, and more reliable electricity and refrigeration, struggled to produce more than a dozen or so runners in total, that would be competitive in 1985.- While athletes from these same non-African nations, started re-writing Tour de France history allegedly due to this same game-changing drug.When did East African dominance start? I gave statistics as early as 1988, but that was not meant to suggest the emergence of East African dominance. Sticking with World Cross Country, we can find evidence of East African domination emerging as far back as 1981, a period when the USA was strong and deep, with the likes of Porter, Virgin, Nenow, Salazar and "malmo", and others like Hunt, Eyestone, Anderson, Easker, Drenth, Bickford, Donakowski, etc. providing sufficient depth at the top to field a team of 6 to 10 runners:- In 1985, when Europeans and Americans were still competitive, East African seniors placed 4 out of the top 6, and juniors placed 8 out of the top 8. Ethiopia and Kenya took 1st and 2nd in both senior and junior races.- in 1984, 1983, and 1982, Ethiopia, with historically less depth than the Kenyans, still wins both men's senior and junior events. Kenya, placed 4th in the 1984 seniors race, 3rd in 1983, and 4th in 1982, apparently not fielding a full team in the junior races.- in 1981 Ethiopia wins the senior mens event, and Kenya takes third. Kenya and Ethiopia did not participate in the junior race.
Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:
rekrunner wrote:I wouldn't turn a thread about statistics into a doping thread. I would love to talk purely statistics. I guess you fear that I might point out the reality of the existence of Irish and Dutch coaches in East Africa. Or that Italian athletes also have access to Italian coaches, doctors, and pharma companies. I can't imagine that there exists a single statistic about doping that distinguishes East Africans from all others, that could also be described as "best captures the complete dominance".
2) On five occasions (before 2002), 1988, 1991, 1993, 1994, and 1996, the finishes of the top six Kenyans would have beaten a "world" team composed of the top six finishes from the rest of the world combined.
Good to see you're still alive and kicking. Interestingly, the Kenyan/East African dominance started about the same still as your favourite substance became available. You know.........EPO.
Percentage of medals won at Olympics and Worlds in those events (start in 1968 and eliminate 1976 due to boycott).
Percentage of top 100 times in the events you choose.
Olympic steeple chase domination by Kenya, and steeple chase domination in general
test2 wrote:
[quote]Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:
He's just a skeptic and does back up his assertions with reasoning and evidence.
Really, no epo era, white people don't benefit from epo, white people went backwards in the EPO era (Paula, Baumann, Kennedy, Mottram, Cacho), North Africans don't really exist, North Africans are really Africans, North Africans are really Caucasians, North Africans didn't benefit from epo. Only cyclists benefit from epo. It doesn't matter that many were on a drug cocktail prior to 1985. The western demographic slump doesn't matter. East Africans didn't take EPO. The fact that twenty years ago 12:39 was possible and now barely sub-13 in no way is proof of epo use. The Chinese women in no way is evidence of epo usage.
The truth is riling up rekrunner is good for kicks and giggles but really I'm the skeptic and you are free to join at any time.
test2 wrote:
Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:You do know that you are openly inviting in Rekrunner, Renato and the entire Nike PR department to denying this. Thanks alot another thread destroyed, might as well invite in Calculo while we're at it.
It's not fair to lump rekrunner in with these guys. He's just a skeptic and does back up his assertions with reasoning and evidence.
0/10
"Skepticism is the process of applying reason and critical thinking to determine validity. It's the process of finding a supported conclusion, not the justification of a preconceived conclusion."I didn't make all those claims, but the ones I did, I gave my reasons and basis -- in the other thread.
Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:
test2 wrote:He's just a skeptic and does back up his assertions with reasoning and evidence.
Really, no epo era, white people don't benefit from epo, white people went backwards in the EPO era (Paula, Baumann, Kennedy, Mottram, Cacho), North Africans don't really exist, North Africans are really Africans, North Africans are really Caucasians, North Africans didn't benefit from epo. Only cyclists benefit from epo. It doesn't matter that many were on a drug cocktail prior to 1985. The western demographic slump doesn't matter. East Africans didn't take EPO. The fact that twenty years ago 12:39 was possible and now barely sub-13 in no way is proof of epo use. The Chinese women in no way is evidence of epo usage.
The truth is riling up rekrunner is good for kicks and giggles but really I'm the skeptic and you are free to join at any time.
Here's a nice statistic on their dominance: A reported *40* doping postives since 2011 and allegations of bribery & corruption. Yikes 😨. ("Athletics doping: Kenya misses WADA deadline." Dan Roan/BBC Sports/021116):
http://m.bbc.com/sport/athletics/36275649
Most of those 40 positives were for steroids, however, there were still some for EPO. And neither Kenya nor Ethiopia are part of the ABP program because of no WADA-accredited labs in the region to conduct the blood tests.
What a total joke: Ban those "dreaded" Russians from Rio, but let the fan favorite Kenyans complete 😄.
samsonite wrote:
Galen rupp lost to infinitely more east africans than he did to males from any other country in rio
I don't think you know what infinitely means. The number of runners he lost to was exactly 2, not infinite. Moran.
Check the table for the column "Length of erect pen1s." Incontrovertible.
It looks like that the longer you have you are more like a missing link...
Maybe PEDs, as we can see recently?
Doping is the reason