What you can expect if you're going to run for a bad D3 school.

2/10. Overplayed

My D3 experience was much closer to this than the OP, but I think part of that is that we had a really good D3 team. The distance program was the weak link when I first arrived (as a walk on who never ran in high school, they let me compete at the first home XC meet, and I finished 2nd for the team if that tells you anything), but with a couple of transfer students, and my development and the development of another athlete, we ended up with a really stacked D3 team (2 3rd place finishes at XC nationals), and had even more fun together outside of running than we did on the fields and track.I admit that we caught lightning in a bottle some with the two transfers from D1 programs and getting a D1 quality newbie walk on (7 D3 All Americas, one D3 national champion, one D3 national runner up, and one D3 3rd place XC finsher out of that trio); but the culture that you start with may not be the culture that you end with.

Smoove wrote:

I admit that we caught lightning in a bottle

Anytime I hear this phrase I picture farting in a Coke bottle.

Average to better than average team overall (but one really bad year, much below average). Ran 4 years, going in with minimal high school background. On average team had two or three at sub 26 for 8K (and even sub 25 on occasion), maybe three or four in the 26:30 to 28:30 range. And that'd make the varsity, then there would be a dozen or so going 29s to 32s, but they were actually the more fun and interesting characters.

1. Personally, I just wanted to run and see what I could do as a runner. The rest of the team was an odd mix. Some wanted to do as little as possible but maintain their high school level, some were more social but they didn't stick around long (season or half season and then you wouldn't see them around anymore).

2. There was a mix of commitment levels. Most didn't improve much on high school level, or if they did they plateaued after a year or two. Most didn't eat well. Majority drank, some heavily. Most but not all were solid or good students.

3. Sure, you always want to do better.

4. At the time I may have feared racing, didn't know how to lay it on the line and the mentoring was poor. But still went out there and ran, practically ever damn meet.

5. Again, a mix, but the more hard core runners of the bunch were the social center of the team. Less committed members sort of drifted in and out.

6. We had a wide range of disparate personalities, and at times a bitterly divided team.

Responses to advice (OP has some points here):

1. School was for academics, running was something I was interested in trying.

2. Team placement (pecking order) Was a huge deal, and it was detrimental to the team's psyche and development.

3. This is good advice, I (wrongly) thought teammates were BFFs. Predominantly Not.

4. Likewise, more or less agree. Spent a lot of time and energy compromising just to get along with people on the team who were actually selfish a-holes.

Yes, there are plenty of shitty D3 programs. Just as there are plenty of serious D3 programs. In the NE region, think Middlebury, Tufts, Williams, Johns Hopkins, MIT…

Generally for D3, the better the academics, the better the running program. You’re not going to find a shitty academic school with a great running program.

But if you’re not gifted academically or graced with running talent, you’ll probably end up at an average D3 school with a less than average program. You won’t improve, and you’ll probably get sick of all the excuses your teammates make. Sure, people are saying you have to put in the effort if you want to be better, but I can tell you from experience how hard it is to want to be good and to be fast, but half of your team never shows up to practice, and your coach is bringing his 2 kids in a stroller to the track for repeats because he’s also a full-time dad and the coaching job barely pays anything. The environment is toxic for running and you find yourself also making excuses and not pushing yourself because no one else will push you.

Dude - I read this and laughed at YOU. If you are a well-motivated runner at a D3 school, then have a half-a-brain and know what situation you are getting into in advance. Just accept the fact that you are not an olympian, and get used to the idea of running with hobby joggers like the rest of D1 runner's who couldn't be All-Americans do all the time.

hey OP, I'm sorry you're not loving your track program. It might be worth taking a semester off to try on different hats. Maybe parliamentary debate is your thing, or you could take like 4-5 dance and yoga classes, which are expensive when you're an adult.

Another data point:. I ran on a DIII team where a 30:00 8k was good enough to make the varsity XC squad most years, and I never made the varsity squad. I had a lot of fun and continue to run with a track club. At the time, most people on the team took it very seriously, and to my dismay, very few of them run anymore. I think people who stressed out over whether we scored 6th or 7th in our conference -- like anybody cared! -- burned out. And then the best reason to run college track, IMO -- to develop healthy habits for adulthood -- is out the window. So that's too bad.

Anyway, best bet is to take it easy and run because it's fun and it's nice to have a team and it's good to learn how to live a healthy, balanced life, and track can help with that.

My 2c.

Centrowitz Ma wrote:

I don't see what's wrong with The Realist's post. Some people have taken it as as an insult and responded emotionally, but the post itself was matter-of-fact.

After reading to the end of thread I came to quote this guy because I agree completely with what he said. Now, I can't add my own experience since I didn't do the D3 thing but was just reading out of curiosity...

What I CAN add is my HS experience, which I imagine closely parallels the OP's scene if his tales are to be believed (I bought it). Also, in middle-age looking back, the ages are not that dissimilar.

At my school there was a particular wing where the distance guys hung out. Before school, during, after (although we often ran together after). We talked about training, upcoming races (mostly 10km, occasional marathon, etc) and we could usually count on each other being around. It was cool.

Miraculously, some others thought we were cool, too. Included in this were some of the 'track nerds'. Although my generation are the ones who made 'nerd' a compliment, it wasn't yet then. These were the guys who joined the track team because......well, I never really knew why but suspect with hindsight (and a little wisdom) that it was social. They were not in a cool crowd or crowd at all and it was a sport that, as far as I knew, one didn't have to 'go out for', which means, I believe, attend a try-out after which one 'makes the team' or doesn't. So, showing up did it - you presumably were issued a uniform and all.

Some of the team were sprinters/hurdlers or mid-D runners (or wanted to be) and so would have had a difficult time finding a competitive outlet without the team. If what you did - or wanted to do - was distance, you didn't need the team and, in fact, they didn't offer distance events so we were not interested. But the wierd guys were. Some may not have known what to do, how to do it, or that we hung out at G-Wing, or that we - or distance running, period - existed.

Some, however, knew who and where we were and were fans. These, I believe, are closely analogous to the clowns the OP ran into. I believe his post and found it quite entertaining. In fact, I haven't thought about my HS scene so much in years!

Thanks for the memories!

former D3 runner wrote:

Yes, there are plenty of shitty D3 programs. Just as there are plenty of serious D3 programs. In the NE region, think Middlebury, Tufts, Williams, Johns Hopkins, MIT…

Generally for D3, the better the academics, the better the running program. You’re not going to find a shitty academic school with a great running program.

Ever heard of North Central College?

D3 xc can be a blast and if you are charismatic at all, you should be able to bring up the rest of the distance runners close to your level. Many of the faster guys on the team were successful with the attractive ladies--mostly other runners. I was also around a team where nobody'd ever run sub 30 until that time. With one good sub 26 foreigner and tough workouts everyone bought into, in a couple years they had five sub 26, most of whom had come in running 30 or slower.

Coached at a bad D3 school for awhile. One thing they didn't lack was competitive drive. Spent more time ensuring they were operating at the right level than almost anything else. Those kids would've run through a brick wall if I'd let them. They were also extraordinarily coachable because they desperately wanted to learn and get better. Great experience.

Eventually they did get better. It's not a bad D3 program anymore.

Oh man this was funny